Teachers. Come and talk to me about streaming, please.

we set after our first test, which is at the first half term.

SATs are so misleading because so many of the kids are taught to the test.

I had one child who got a level 5 in her SATs, in our test get got a 3.....a true reflection of her attainment as she found science very difficult and couldn't follow simple instructions

Lots of secondary schools don't use the SATS tests for streaming but do their own ability tests. Dd's school will stream for maths and literacy (not sure about science) but not for all humanities.

Might add that I was educated in the Swedish system when it was top of the world: there was no streaming in primary school, and in secondary school only for foreign languages and maths. My school was out in the sticks with mainly children from non-professional backgrounds, but I don't remember this being a massive problem. Perhaps we just got on with it.

Am currently teaching mixed levels (not just mixed ability!) at university level, due to financial restraints. I have everybody in my class from complete beginners to students with A-levels in the subject. The juggling is entertaining, but they usually do very well. Not recommending this one for secondary school though

We used to set from year 8, fashionista (based on SATs being a dreadful waste of everyone's time).

If your ds's school does set in year 7 it might well be in recommendations from primary teachers.

How will my sons secondary school stream if they do not get the SATS results in time. Do you think they ask for teachers predictions.

Our school sets for Maths and Science.

Mixed ability for English.but they get outstanding results. When I asked Head of English how they managed these amazing results, she said it is because we do mixed ability.....

I have taught mixed ability all my time as a teacher. You do get used to catering for all different levels, and they all seem to end up with the grade they are expected to get

Our schools sets for maths, English, science, humanities and languages. Setting starts in October of Year 7 for maths, and other subjects follow suit over the following 6 months.

Faculties review sets every half-term.

Set in languages as well.

we were set for maths from year 7 and then not until year 10 where we set in Maths and by which type of science you were taking (which were then individually set) and then working around that set in English and humanities. Unfortunately it meant that English & humanities were much more loosely set than maths & science.

Best of all was that the school didn't realise that those capable of getting solid A&B's in all 3 sciences would not choose to take the option to do so it rather screwed up their plans!

It's streaming in its truest sense Piffle - test kids for ability in one thing (non verb reasoning in this case) and then stream them for every subject on the basis of that.

Not surprising it doesn't work too well really. I wonder if in areas where 11+ covers a wider subject range they get a better approximation of the top ability range? I know my friends ds's grammar doesn't set at all as they reckon they don't need to and they had more than just NVR papers for 11+ there, but they also do have some kids who my friends wonder how they passed the test.

The reliability of the 11+ to discriminate the ablest kids accurately is my fundamental objection to selective systems. At least when streaming happens within a school it's easier to move between streams (but not always as easy as you might think if for example the top stream do different subjects - eg Latin.)

At my dd's grammar school they set for Maths and English in year 8, but not for anything else. BUT it is a grammar school, so the whole class teaching is mixed ability in the loosest possible meaning of the term!

There are 6 maths sets and I think 4 English sets in year 8.

snorkle you'd hope that would be the case. But the only test at 11+ was non verbal reasoning... Easy to coach for as it transpires. As there are to be honest plenty of bright kids, a few genius types, some average and far too many who are falling behind badly.
so streaming in his school is important. Ds1 really looking forward to English being streamed though.
ours is not a hugely grammary grabbing area as the mixed high school is also v good results wise so many parents send their kids there even if they pass the 11+

At a grammar school Piffle the children are effectively streamed just by passing the 11+ and being there. That's why a lot of them don't bother with further streaming/setting.
I think real mixed ability classes must be fustrating for many of the children as well as the teacher - unless the teaching is truely inspirational.

DD1s school has sets for every subject(including PE). We did visit another school which was just about to change their policy and teach English in mixed ability groups. It wasn't the only reason we didn't choose it, but it was certainly one of them.

I taught in Cornwall, in Humanities (unimportant - thanks Cod!) and all the classes I taught for RE, Geography and History were mixed ability. We only setted once in year 9 for RE, which I loved, but all the other teachers were opposed to for political reasons.

I went to Comp from 1977-1982 and we were streamed and setted from what was then the first year. You could move between streams, and up and down the sets, I went up to top set French, and down to set 2 in maths. It meant you worked to your ability, and there was the possibility of moving up which was an incentive.

At my secondary school (not that long ago in the grand scheme of things) we had sets for maths and science but not for anything else. Being mixed for English (taught in your tutorial group) was bloody awful! I've always been a bookworm and found writing pretty easy, and we did have people who struggled to read at all. Some had SN, some just weren't that academic. Right up until GCSE we used to read books and plays out loud, taking turns at a page or so each. It took forever to get through even a short book...

Ds's school will have their YR 7 that start next September doing their CATs tomorrow so are set for maths, english and then all other subjects from the moment they start in September.
A friend is a TA in another school which don't set for 2 years. She said the classes are chaotic and it just doesn't work.

But even for those in lower streams, it must be better to have the teacher going at the right speed, surely? I suppose there must be one or two in a mixed ability class who are going through the material at the right rate, but even they'll be suffering from the disruption of the bored & frustrated ones.

ds1 reports that maths has been the only streamed subject thus far at his boys grammar, from next yr(10) English will be streamed with one top ability set and 4 mixed classes this is for 120 students.
Ds approves of streaming but he is top set for everything... Can see how it changes for those not in top streams though...

It does sound totally daft to do that right through the school - how can that possibly be the best thing for any of the children?

In our local school they set for Maths, Science and modern languages but NOT for English. Many parents have complained about this over the years but the head says it is the head of dept's choice and as long as the results are good, he is happy to let her have her way.
The results are not that good, and a lot of pupils are bored and frustrated. I should think it would be a nightmare to teach a mixed ability class right up to GCSE and diffrentiate enough for the range you are going to get. But she will not be moved.

and they don't like looking as if they can't do the work in fron of their peers, so to save face they arse about