Henrietta Barnet Stage 2 Test & Results - 2027 entry

I'm just imagining the horror of 300 prospective and pushy parents on one WhatsApp group. Nothing on God's earth would entice me into that.

Hiya,

I understand in previous years there has been a WhatsApp group set up for parents of DDs likely to get into HBS e.g. Top 300. Does anyone know if that exists this year? It could be useful to help make decisions. Pending the final results, we may be making a HBS v Latymer decision (& possibly DAO)...

Our daughter passed to the second round for three schools- HBS, Latymer and DAO, with a quite high rank in Latymer and in the middle in DAO. While we are still waiting for their final results, we really can't decide in which order to put them on the CAF.
Especially stuck between DAO and HBS - one with great facilities and coed and few classmates passed the first round too, another - top of the top in academic level and at least closer from us on car and surrounding area is nice overall, so we potentially can move closer, to make the journey take less.

Spot on. I suspect she might be falling into the common trap of thinking that placing HBS first could hurt her odds for her lower choices compared to listing them first. In reality, thanks to the equal preference mechanism, each school assesses applications independently without knowing where you ranked them on your CAF.

We are in agreement on all the essentials. The disagreement is that I am considering the entire admissions process, so including the results on 1st March. I can see that my phrase "at that point" can be read ambiguously. "Because she specified, and received, a different first preference" would have expressed my point more clearly.

it does feel like we are potentially taking a chance as the outcome is not guaranteed and could go either way.

I'm assuming that you live in an LEA which allows you to specify six preferences. The chance you're taking by putting HBS first and then finding out that your DD didn't qualify is that you don't get to put down what would have been your seventh preference. How big a gamble is that for you?

Just out of curiosity for everyone who made it through to Stage 2: if you are thinking of listing HBS as your second preference on the CAF, which school might be taking your top choice?

but a simple indication of whether your DD has made the cutoff would have helped parents like us decide/be more confident about putting HBS as the first option. @Maaya7

No, it is not as "simple" as you thought, because the school does not know what the cutoff score will be! The actual cutoff score for the PAN of 120 can only be determined through the central system on National Offer Day. This calculation must account for priority rankings based on distance and pupil premium/disadvantage status, while also filtering out applicants who did not rank HBS as their first choice and received another offer, or those who took the round 2 test but ultimately did not apply.
If you assume the cutoff is simply the score of the top 120 applicants from the current stage, that number is misleading. Furthermore, the school intentionally withholds raw scores and individual rankings to prevent negative peer dynamics and comparison among students once they enter the school.

Yes, DD gave the second round exam but we come under Category 4 i.e. we live outside the 3 mile radius - hence my original question about the vagueness of their email.
I understand that the majority of the students who are allocated places fall into the above category too, but a simple indication of whether your DD has made the cutoff would have helped parents like us decide/be more confident about putting HBS as the first option.
No doubt, it will still be our first preference on CAF, but it does feel like we are potentially taking a chance as the outcome is not guaranteed and could go either way.

I think the main point is that in the case of acceptable scores (high enough to receive an offer on 1st March), the chances of getting into the school (HBS in that case) stop being 100% if it wasn't put as the first school on the CAF. Instead, it starts to depend on the council/school reaction and, once in the queue, the probability that at least one more girl with offer will reject it.

At that point, the girl would be behind all the lower scoring girls who put HBS first and were allocated a place there on 1st March.

I know what you meant, but, technically speaking, your claim is not precise. When those lower-scoring girls receive their offers on March 1st, they will either:

1. Accept the offer—in which case they don't enter the waiting list, so they never directly compete with the girls who don't get the offer.
2. Reject the offer—in which case they won't sit ahead of those girls on the waiting list.
3. Reject the offer and then later on ask to be put back on the waiting list—in which case they will fall behind those girls, because the waiting list is ranked strictly by score.

if a girl scores high within the PAN but makes a mistake on her application and then asks to be placed back on the waiting list, she should be ranked according to her score, which means she jumps the queue and pushes everyone else on the original waiting list down.

Correct, but that doesn't contradict my statement:

At that point, the girl would be behind all the lower scoring girls who put HBS first and were allocated a place there on 1st March.

Lower scoring girls would have received places on 1st March. The school isn't going to take one of those places away. The girl on the wait list still needs for enough spaces to open up.

It's just the vague and noncommital tone of the email which doesn't seem to give you any sort of reassurance.

I assume that you received the email because your DD scored within the top 300 on the first round and has taken the second round. If the LEA believes that you live within 3 miles of the school, congratulations, the place is yours (if you put them as your first preference). In recent years, that's been about 30 girls. That leaves 90 places for the other 270 girls. So 1/3 of them will get the option but 2/3 of them will not, at least not as of 1st March.

What tone do you think would have been more appropriate?

I guess very depends on the council speed to react on this, the correction could be too late and sounds risky to drop the offered place in the 1st choice school, as it still waiting list and most of movement could already happen at this moment - I assume its few first weeks of March when kids accepts private schools offers and emptied their places at grammar.

Thanks, I get that. It's just the vague and noncommital tone of the email which doesn't seem to give you any sort of reassurance. It could very well be the option your DD gets BUT at the same time there's a good chance she won't!

From my knowledge of another grammar school, the waiting list is ranked purely by test score, and the school does not see your preference order on the CAF. Therefore, if a girl scores high within the PAN but makes a mistake on her application and then asks to be placed back on the waiting list, she should be ranked according to her score, which means she jumps the queue and pushes everyone else on the original waiting list down.

Sorry, I did mean those who put it first AND are eligible would take up spaces Vs those who put it second.

My son went to a school as a music specialist so we knew he would get in due to his score in their test (they did give these out before the deadline for admissions applications). We received a similar message/advice email from council admissions so I can only assume some people put these schools second and then get annoyed when they aren't allocated on offer day, which doesn't make much sense!

Understood. It's tough trying to decide and pick it as an option when it's all based on probability!

This isn't true. The school doesn't know where people put them. If they put HBS first & aren't eligible they won't get a place. If someone puts them 2nd, isn't eligible for their first but it eligible for hbs they will get it.

I think this is meant to remind people that, if you list HBS as your second preference and you meet the admissions criteria for your first preference, you will be offered a place at your first preference, not HBS, on 1st March, even if your DD scored highly enough to get a place. If you really do prefer the other school to HBS, this is absolutely fine and the advice doesn't apply to you.

Assuming the number of applications exceeds our PAN

If HBS is oversubscribed (which it will be!), someone who actually prefers HBS but makes the mistake of putting another school ahead of it on the application form might be allocated a place at the other school on 1st March and would have to join the HBS waiting list to try to correct the mistake. At that point, the girl would be behind all the lower scoring girls who put HBS first and were allocated a place there on 1st March.

It just means if everyone who lists as first preference takes up all the spaces then obviously those who listed it as second won't get in. Putting it first increases the chance of a space (if you also make the grade)

That is correct

you are advised to list The Henrietta Barnett School as your daughter's first preference if you do want her to come here.
The wording is strange. Why can't HBS be anyone's second choice? I thought one can list HBS as a second preference and still gain admission if the first preference falls through.