GCSEs in England: which subjects / how many are compulsory? What can each school force kids to take?

So I am struggling because I dared say that I find it puzzling to post a study then disagree with its conclusions?

No-one has said that.

I don’t think @Phineyj is struggling in this conversation. After all, she isn’t the one who has had a post deleted or the one who feels the need to stoop to the level of repeatedly insulting other posters because they don’t agree with her.

I don’t think anyone is struggling in the discussion – but what started as a clear enough enquiry about GCSE subjects has become something else, led by continued posts from the OP. No one is looking for a get out of jail card (!) but I did wonder from the tone of your posts if you were researching a news story or a blog post on education in England or similar.

If not then happy days. Good luck with the school decision for your DC.

I am wondering if the OP may be AI. The discussion is so strange...

To add to the setting and streaming point, something that hasn’t been mentioned so far is that some schools run a nurture or transition group. When looking at a school’s policy on setting/streaming, it can be useful to consider if they have such a class/classes. Comparison and research into nurture and transition classes is difficult because schools run them in different ways. Some schools only run them for Y7, some Y7&8, some for KS3, some right through to the end of Y11. Some have mixed year group classes, some run their nurture/transition groups as single year group classes. Some stay in this group for all lessons, but at other schools it is only a selection of subjects, not all. Some decide which pupils to put in their nurture/transition group purely on literacy levels, some look at wider academic ability and others look at wider readiness for secondary school.

What do you want out of this thread, @ItalianParent?

You implied to begin with that you were choosing a school. But maybe you aren't. You said you had concerns about religious elements in UK education. But then you said you didn't really. Then you started talking about academy trusts and the extent to which they're genuinely independent. Then whether retail business was an academically rigorous subject. Then setting and streaming.

What do you want out of this? I mean you don't have to say but it might focus the discussion a bit.

My 13 year old is autistic and places no value on fiction AT ALL. She doesn't see the point of it

You honestly might as well teach R&J to the cat! eyes Mercutio-like kitten

I look at evidence. And consider how it supports (or not) my own experience.

Do you not apply a bit of critical thinking yourself to what you read?

I’ve also been able to access GCSE options info for each prospective school on their website, so I know how they timetable the options, how many are expected, when the kids choose, etc. I’ve also checked on Compare School Performance “additional performance measures” for details like average number of GCSEs taken, how many do ebacc, triple science or more than one language, etc.

I think ultimately if you have a realistic choice of schools the grouping arangements (setting, streaming, mixed ability) might be one factor that feed in to how you order you preferences. Different people will have different preferences & it is just part of the mix.
However, like the curriculum offer it is subject to change. There is another thread running at the moment where a school appears to have moved from quite limited setting to streaming. My DD's school has made a number of changes in recent years. Ultimately, you have to work with the school's decision both on how they group & on what group your child gets placed in. At open days you can ask how they currently group and get a feel for the ethos and likely direction of travel, but even longstanding policies can change.

You need to look at it the other way. Which qualifications do 6th form and colleges want students to have to allow access onto next level courses? Students will need English and Maths for everything and have to do endless resits until they pass.

yes it does, as does <blows own subject trumpet> MFL.

I very very much agree with @Phineyj that there should be a F tier for Eng lang and lit. To say "well it's self setting" (as in, a more able student will write an essay on R&J that reaches a higher level) ignores the fact that for a significant % of the cohort, a chunk of Shakespeare and "analyse this" is a totally unapproachable task - but one that, with scaffolding, they could look at.

@Phineyj I believe science has foundation and higher tier papers.

As a teacher I personally think true mixed ability Humanities teaching is tremendously hard work for the teacher and teaching inevitably ends up mainly for the middle. It serves the less able and most able equally badly. But it's cheap!

No need to talk about me in the third person. I'm right here 😀.

My view is my view. I think setting for Maths makes sense. There are two versions of the GCSE. High flyers in Maths may be very able and can learn in large classes. Those who find Maths harder can benefit from smaller classes.

Other subjects don't have different papers. Everyone sits the same one and they're graded 9-1. I do think there should be two versions of the English GCSE too. That is my personal opinion.

I also think Functional Skills should be much more widely available in both Maths and English. That is my personal opinion.

The view of the progressive educational establishment is well represented by the meta review I studied.

My own views are agnostic around setting and streaming. There are winners and losers. I went to a grammar school myself but I haven't chosen to send my daughter to one.

I think people can have different views about setting (groups for specific subjects based on attainment in that subject) and streaming (grouping accross all subjects based on general attainment/ability). Setting might be seen as more important for linear subjects where sucessful progression to new topics requires mastery of previous ones. The subject that tends to be setted most often is maths because of this. It is a bit more nuanced than is setting/streaming a good/bad thing.
Personally, im happy with flexible setting for specific subjects where there are regular reviews and a rationale for it. However, i strongly dislike streaming and think mixed ability can work well for lots of subjects. I went to school in the 80s/90s and had mixed ability teaching at GCSE for many subjects. I didnt think about it much & it wasnt a barrier to high attainment. We did have sets for maths & science (& maybe super broad sets for MFL - this would be an exam and non-exam class for example). I think you are more comfortable with things you've experienced. I never found mixed ability for things like English, humanties, CDT etc. problematic. I think that feeds into being happy with it. I do think maths is a bit different though.

The school must have a very different cost profile then.

Schools in the SE of England have very high costs.

@clary I’m thankful we didn’t/don’t have any of the ridiculous nonsense of having to enter blatantly unsuitable courses and the detrimental negative effect that has on the students concerned. DS1 has EOTAS so there is much more flexibility in what and how he learns and what qualifications he sits.

Yes agree. The alternative English quals would be needed by a small % but they would still be more than valid. It makes me angry that schools have to enter students for Eng lit (“have to” as in bc of P8 and other metrics) when there is no way they can access a chunk of Shakespeare as it is currently presented. It would be simple enough to devise an exam which still allowed study of Shakespeare and other great authors but where the questions were much more accessible.

I agree with you that there should be a F tier for English. And/or a more other English qualifications.

DS1 has complex needs. GCSE English Language and GCSE English Literature don’t work for him. He didn’t sit either and won’t in the future either. For various reasons Functional Skills doesn’t work for him. Neither does the Step up to English ELC. It isn’t a problem for him, but there are other DC who can’t access the current English GCSEs, iGCSEs (which some DC with SEN not in state mainstream schools sit as it meets their needs better) or other qualifications.