Yearly warning about taking A-level maths with a 6 at GCSE

I found O level maths pretty easy when I sat it in the late 70s. Comfortable A. A level was really hard. I scraped a B with a lot of help from my proper mathematician boyfriend. The rest of my class got mostly Ds and Es. All fine then, but not when you need A*-B to get into a good university course.

That said, anyone who can do well in it is likely to find it beneficial on their CV later.

So according to the grade boundaries she was four marks off an 8, allthough it doesn't make much difference.

@Soporalt But grades are very different now. Maths has the highest % of A and A star. It’s not what it was in terms of a challenge. Plus the number of A grades has doubled since your day.

I'd suggest that some of the question is how the marks are lost to be not getting the 8/9. If the issue is exam technique/arithmetical oopsies or something memory heavy in the geometry side of things that's far less of an issue than finding algebra a big struggle. A Level is really algebra heavy and builds on the algebra. You can get around issues with stats or mechanics by rote learning but algebra does need to make sense as there's too many nuances to rote learn everything required.

That said I can still remember some of the repetitive bits of school maths (quadratic equation) and soh cah toa...

Also had to learn long division during A-level, everyone who had switched from state to private had missed it as it didn't come up in GCSE then, it actually made more sense with algebra than without for me 😂

No it was the actual GCSE. I agree that it makes no sense. I have no idea why they do this.

But 6/7 students will be the life-blood of most VI Forms. Not most Mumsnet VI Forms perhaps....
Agree re the Maths however. A colleague whose timetable was half Maths, half Psychology said that the intellectual demand and independent effort required by Maths A level was incomparable with Psychology.

Thanks for an interesting thread. Reading through this, anyone who basically doesn’t have a 7 or above in à given subject basically shouldn’t be doing A levels. Is that where we are with our education system now. For the huge number of kids who don’t get 6/7 qnd above - we should be moving them out of traditional À levels. What a situation we are at then, when A levels are considered the ‘ normal’ way forward but there will be significant numbers of children we should be saying leave traditional sixth form..

for me, I find this quite depressing however our education system is so very warped with up to à third of children not getting 4 or above. They fail. Then don’t get 7 or above you fail your À levels. Honestly this system fails our children

I don't think that's the message.
I think the message is to be realistic of the likely result and think whether that would be OK for you.
If your other subjects are aimed to be As then do you want to do Maths (or whatever) if that is likely to lead to a C if you don't need maths for next steps and could more likely get an A or a B in a different subject.
If you are aiming for Ds and Es then doing maths with a 6 is more reasonable than if you want an A.

I do however think maybe more kids should be considering T-Levels / BTECs. there are still too many that seem to think A levels at all costs rather than looking at other options properly.

I agree, it seems many more kids should be considering BTecs and T levels- however this is not what they are told in school. It is all about

À level( sorry the phone posted too quickly). Maybe all schools should be offering alternatives and presented as an equivalent alternative not as the choice for teens who aren’t clever enough for A levels. This just leads to yet more eating away at their already dented self esteem

Pps inc me have suggested A level subjects suitable for a candidate with grade 6s.

And A levels ate not suitable for all. One of my DC certainly was not a candidate.

There are lots of other options inc Btecs, T levels, apprenticeships.

Would you suggest A levels should be for all Yp? they would need to be very different if so. And then they would fail the more able. We all have different skills and abilities and wishes too.

This is not the case in all schools and all subjects.

We offer btec and A level. Many kids do a combination of both and still get into hallowed Russell groups. Some get interviews at oxbridge but, despite getting the grades, don't seem to get offers (but that's a different thread).

We take with 5s for most A levels. Sometimes 4, depending on circumstances.

Gcses don't always work as a predictor. Especially with boys. And especially in the comps I've always worked in.

However, I do agree with A level maths. And definitely when I think about ds and his 6. He was close to a 7, but he doesn't scream maths kid; just lucky.

That's mental! Is she retaking Further Maths this year? A 6 in Further Maths a year early suggests she can achieve a 9 if she takes it in Y11.

Yes, this - I work in a similar school. Despite all the fuss about Russell Group and Oxbridge (whence we send kids, of course) there is actually a surplus of university places overall so a skilled UCAS advisor can easily match students to suitable courses.

I will say as a subject teacher that it is a challenge teaching A star to E in large classes and I feel those capable of working at A star are under served as a result - if you have one of those kids it is worth picking one of the more competitive sixth form environments (if that's what they want, of course).

I think there needs to be more promotion of BTECs/T levels to parents and for parents to not be sniffy about the options they offer vs A levels for their children. I knew early on my daughter would be a BTEC candidate, she was predicted 5s. As it turns out she got a few higher grades- 8 in Eng Lang, 8 in PE, 6/5 in Science among them but to me these grades still translate as “she’ll do better in a BTEC Sports and Exercise science than PE + 2 other A levels”. So many parents have been stunned that I haven’t pushed her to do A levels. If she can come out of a BTEC with the highest grades she’ll do better/have more ucas points for a degree than she would have with the likely grades from A levels. It’s a no brainer for her to follow this route for me.

I agree with this.
Back in the day I did a GNVQ ( two A level equivalent) and one A level.
I did have the grades to do A levels but knew I wanted to work in health and social care, so the GNVQ made sense because the entire content of the course interested me and was very relevant. I loved it. Completed a degree and two masters since and I'm currently one of the most senior people in my team. Obviously depends what your career goal is. Some university degrees only accept traditional A levels .

The teachers I know who teach BTECs think they're great. However, the DfES/government really muddied the waters by trying to take BTEC away before T levels were fully introduced (and some schools will never be able to introduce them because of the amount of work experience required) and are now repeating their mistake with V levels. Hard for schools to communicate clearly with parents when they don't know which courses will be funded from one year to the next!

There is definitely an issue with the education system having changed and parents not realising.

In London and alone of the other cities there's also the issue that a lot of parents were educated elsewhere in the world. My personal opinion is that parents should receive more basic information earlier about e.g. what GCSES are and what their significance is. We are an international outlier having important exams at 16.

Absolutely bonkers. At DD’s school those doing FM (basically only the top set) don’t start it until year 11 as you need year 10 maths under your belt for the FM curriculum to make sense.

DS wanted to take Physics but was put off by the teachers at every open evening saying how hard it is. Which is a shame really because he enjoys it, it's his best science subject and he got a very comfortable 8. He's opted for Economics instead, alongside Maths and Further Maths. I'm trying not to have kittens about what happens if he can't keep up/hates the maths side but I'm pleased he's got an essay subject in the mix.

No that’s not how they do it at her school. Should I be offering to pay for her to do it again in Year 11 to improve her grade? Is there actually any value in doing so?

Sorry to jump on. My son got an 8 in maths and a 9 in further maths level 2 cert. He was 4 marks of a 9 so we are asking for his papers back to see if any obvious missed marks. As it stands his grammar school will not let him do further maths without a 9. He is gutted but not so gutted that he wants to change schools. He finds maths easy but tends to be quite careless. He would like to try to study further maths alone and maybe sit further maths AS in June 27. Is this a crazy idea? He is worried that he won’t be considered for some degree courses that expect you to do FM if your school offers it. I assume that school could put in the reference that he was not allied to sit it due to their policy but not sure if that would help.

Be careful if he wants to do an Engineering degree as I think most unis require Physics alongside Maths.

If it were me I would definitely retake Further Maths in Y11. A 6 probably is an unfair representation of your daughter's abilities as she was forced to do it a year early.