Yearly warning about taking A-level maths with a 6 at GCSE

I think a student gaining 7s at GCSE can take any subject they like (possibly not FM). No one here has said otherwise I don't think.

I would suggest if they got grade 6s at GCSE, more topic-based subjects might suit better: sociology, RE, phil and ethics, history, geography, PE, English lit or lang (tho lang is very different from GCSE), politics, psychology, environmental science, art, drama, DT (various), media, business. It very much depends though on the student and how hard they worked for their GCSE grades. I think it should be addressed on an individual basis.

I think much depends on the teacher. I failed A level chemistry but recently after 15 years out of education I achieved a grade of 100% on my university level biochemistry module. My highest grade ever. All because of my wonderful lecturer who made the subject come alive!

My warning is don't do English literature either unless you aced your gcse. Signed, ex English lit pupil

@jobnotsure
Thing is though that maths isn't a subject that you can just work harder in and get there. Working hard will get you some way further, but you can have a pupil who works their socks off but will never understand certain concepts.
And if you don't understand the concept then it's very difficult to use it to problem solve.
Equally well you can have a pupil who doesn't need anything including degree level explaining after the initial look because it's just obvious in their eyes.

So it's more than filling in a missing gap.
Some maths can be learnt by rote, but not all. And when it comes to problem solving you don't have a chance of starting if you don't understand the background.

I'm one who had a ds who did A-level from a mid 7. He got an A.
BUT:
He did no work for GCSE except what was in class so had underperformed
He had a certain amount of knowledge missing due to illness
He was working at a E/possibly low D level until mocks when his sister started tutoring him.
He put in more work into maths over those three months than I think he put into the whole rest of school, including having several sessions with dd each week.
It did effect the grades in the other subjects, fairly sure of that. I think both his other subjects dropped a grade due to that.

I wouldn't recommend it if you have a child who has worked hard for that 7, and needs three good grades.

I don’t see people saying you can’t do biology, chemistry or physics without a 7 or an 8 in science.
I do. And also saying don't do Physics without at least a 7 in maths too. The dc's comprehensive said on maths and sciences that they recommended a 7 or above for all of them. The local 6th form will only take below 7s for those subjects if there is space in the class - and they will encourage them to look at other subjects.

But actually it's not a ridiculous concept that you need to be a certain level to move onto the next level, and there are 3 grades above a 6.
I mean in our tennis club growing up, the juniors had to be a certain level on the ladder before they could be considered for senior teams, and another level again before they could apply for the A teams.
That wasn't about being mean (although some parents definitely thought so), it was about acknowledging that playing above your level is pretty miserable for you and you're likely to be playing as hard as you can and hardly getting any points. And also if you were playing in the A team, then you couldn't play for the lower teams where you'd get matches that you could well win.

I did Psychology many years ago! Loved it!

Ok, so we've got History and Psychology.

Any other suggestions for good A-Level subjects for those with 6/7 GCSE grades?

@jobnotsure your post kind of supports our argument here – students would do better at your subject if they had higher grades in certain GCSEs.

I think the point is really that noble finds each year that parents wish they had known that a 6 at GCSE is likely to lead to a lower grade at A level. If a student is OK with that and still wants to take maths then I guess that's fair enough. It's not IMHO in a YP's interests tho to encourage them to take a qualification where they are pretty likely to achieve a very low grade. It's going to be a struggle through two tough years and rather demoralising I suspect.

Edexcel books. I have got Kindle versions as well now. The resources are so much better these days. Geogebra for graphs. As a person with limited drawing ability, I truly appreciate Geogebra.

This is nothing new, 40+ years ago, anyone with a grade c gce maths, then the lowest actual pass, would really struggle with A level

Psychology should be great … we’re the second most popular A level…. That speaks for itself I think!

Interesting post & very different to my experience of school 20 plus yrs ago. I remember finding the step up to A-levels hard in that I didn’t have to do much for GSCEs whereas A-levels required revision etc but I don’t remember many of us needing A/A* to do our A-levels & it wasn’t a barrier to high grades so presumably things have changed a lot.

I teach A level psychology which is classed as a science and actually has a lot of biology in it. But we don’t require more than a 5 grade in Science but I would appreciate a 6 or higher and it would make my life easier. As I could be more confident that more students would understand what neurotransmitters are for example. Most students come in with no foundation in psychology at all, only a small number have the qualification at GCSE. I have in the past taught students A level psychology without maths GCSE which is usually not allowed. We have had to fill the gaps so I know it is possible to do so.

As I said earlier I just think it’s a sorry state of affairs that students with B grades are being discouraged from continuing with maths. In some cases those with a 7 and 8’s are being put off.

Love this! Do you mind my asking what book/app/course you used?

Ridiculous, isn't it. We're told that 7s and 6s were As and Bs in old money. Which would've been perfectly acceptable grades with which to take any A level.

Learning maths again has helped me overcome depression, and I notice my problem-solving skills are coming back.

This is a really interesting thread.

What subjects would we suggest for a student who got 6/7's at GCSE?

I think we've ruled out Maths, all Sciences, all MFL's and English Language.

History should be fine.

What else? Or is it a case that A-levels in general are not the right choice for students 'only' getting 6/7's at GCSE?

I got an A at A level maths in 1976.

I came across the books for Year 1 / Year 2 Pure and Applied in a charity shop. I bought them out of curiosity.

I am retired, so I spend about an hour a day on it. It took me 2 years to work through the year 1 books. I am now onto year 2. I found the year 1 books really tough, as I hadn't done any of it for 50 years.

Year 2 seems a doddle now I am over that hump. Back in the day, we had to do additional maths O level to be allowed to do the A level, and we had to drop history and geography to fit it in.

I was told at Physics A-level that a chunk of the stuff learned for GCSE was -lies- simplifications... And science is still much more knowledge and fact based than maths and languages.

I did A-level a long time ago off an A at GCSE, got an A (before A was a thing at A - Level) and was starting to run into stuff I couldn't get my head around at the end of the pure maths course. Vectors and Matrices were kicking my butt. As it was modular I just hoped they'd be smaller questions in the exam, they were and I got an A in the module (needed an E to get an A overall thanks to solid results to that point) but if the final 2 questions had been on those 2 topics I'd have topped out at a C in the module. I didn't do further maths but did do A level and somehow got a merit for context...

I found all of my A levels relatively easy (French maths physics) other than this one topic, but I definitely felt like I'd run into my maths "ceiling" on vectors and matrices.

Actually lots of people do say don't do science A levels with a 6. I don't have the detailed knowledge to talk about that tbf, but DS2 took biology with a 9 and it was no walk in the park. Obvs just one example. GCSE Chemistry AQA grade 6 was 47%+; biology was 44%+. I would want a higher % understanding for A level really.

What A level do you teach @jobnotsure? What sort of results do you get from students gaining a 6 at GCSE, just out of genuine interest?

ETA: IME of MFL there just isn't time to fill gaps in basic GCSE-level knowledge at A level, certainly not in the teaching time, with the volume of topic, advanced grammar and vocab and lit/film content to cover.

It should be possible to fill those gaps. Sciences are the same the A levels build on knowledge from the GCSE I don’t see people saying you can’t do biology, chemistry or physics without a 7 or an 8 in science. Therefore, I suggest there is a problem with the maths A level.

Mine got a 7 at GCSE, not sure how close to an 8 but does admit that more could have been done for GCSE. They did have a few struggles at the beginning of Y12 but he knew someone who’d graduated with a maths degree and had done the same exam board so got some tutoring with them. Y12 content was okay, did well at the AS level papers at the end but bombed badly in October Y13. Got the Uplearn signed up, did every single extra maths class offered by his teacher and did every past paper available. It worked, he got a comfortable B on the Edexcel papers this year.

I understand the concern but for balance, my dd just achieved an A (nearly A star) in maths a level from a 7 (near the 6 boundary) at gcse.

She just turned 18, one of the youngest in her year and went to a state school, non selective.

Off to study engineering at university.

I don't doubt a word of what you're saying, but this just demonstrates in my view part of what is wrong with the education system, and GCSEs and A levels in particular. I do not remember this being an issue 30 years ago. Someone could quite happily go with a GCSE grade B in maths and do the A level without being made to feel that it was a bad idea etc...I actually think there is clearly a problem with the maths A level if pupils with B grades at GCSE can not attain the top grades. This is not the case in many other A levels and for what it's worth I teach A levels too but obviously not maths ....so understand the system.

Totally agree with @noblegiraffe My DC got a hard earned 9 at GCSE. The A-Level was horrendous, they totally struggled and it distracted away from their other A-Levels.