Yearly warning about taking A-level maths with a 6 at GCSE

Even 30 years ago, you'd have accessed A level maths with a B, but the odds are you'd get a C or below, just like students with a 6 now.

I do personally believe that people can make a difference with hard work so it is down to the individual. However my dd school only allowed a 7 for entry to maths A level and actually she was predicted an A at one point but during the 2 year course she suffered with an unexpected illness and ended up with a B at A-level.

Isn't the truth that you can either do Maths or you can't. I memorised chunks of Chaucer and Caesars De Bello Gallico to get English Litt and Latin. Learnt to describe my bedroom in my French to get through the oral part of French O level, but you can't bluff maths.

The population is so much smaller for those with a 5 too, it skews much easier. 2 star performers move the 5 stars by almost 1%, but have a 0.1% minimal impact on those with a 6.

Politics, Law, Business studies, Philosophy, Sociology all would be excellent depends on interests and what is offered by school or college.

Every day is a schoolday huh :)

I did O levels but all my grades were letters. This was in 1980 so I assume you took yours in the 1970s? I never knew O levels were ever numbers. CSEs existed too and the top grade there was a 1 (= a C at O level).

Now you're kind of supporting my point here about there being a problem with the system. If we are telling young people that they can progress on to maths A level with a 6 (which many schools do) - why are teachers (usually the maths teachers) saying no you can't? Why is your school not listening to you and changing the entry requirements - does the exam board say that a grade 7 and above is necessary? If not, why?

Again this bring us back to my earlier point that 30 years ago you could have accessed A level maths with a B grade and I don't know anyone who would have said you couldn't do it...If an A grade is need to do the A level now something has gone wrong in my opinion.

We seem to be going round in circles and I respect that this thread was all started with the best intentions but as I said it's so sad that the system is now like this. I will now bow out now, good night all.

The results that gave me the most pleasure were my 2 worst subjects, English Lang/English Litt. The English teacher told my Dad he expected me to fail both. In the run-up to the exams, I fell asleep every night reading the prologue to the Canterbury tales. I passed them both and he apologised to me.

Thank you, im so proud he persevered. Off the back of it hes been awarded an engineering degree apprenticeship where he advocated for himself about pursuing your goals. It really frustrates me when children are written off so easily, thankfully he was grown up enough to work his way around it.

Why does it suck? It makes perfect sense that if you only know 50% of the GCSE curriculum (to get a 6) then you won't be successful at A level.

Psychology is a subject with a different nature. Few students study it at GCSE and the science content is built upon, but that isn't the whole psychology A level curriculum. You start learning quite a lot of psychology from scratch, relying on little existing knowledge. Wheras maths is cumulative and builds heavily on prior knowledge, and there's too many gaps to fill.

It is so confusing for us oldies. I did O levels. The grades were 1 - 6 pass and 7 - 9 fail. We wanted 1s or 2s for our A level choices, or maybe a 3. I got a 4 in Latin and so few wanted to do Latin A level, the Latin teacher said a 4 would do if I wanted to do Latin.
Now the grades are turned upside down and what's wanted is an 8 or 9 with 7 being a maybe.

Wow, well done him!

I'm making the point that there needs to be a level of prior achievement to take an A level. You object to the level being 7 in maths rather than 6. But why not 5 – that's a pass? or 4 – also a pass? the reason is because experience with the spec has shown that for a student to have a positive experience, a certain level of attainment and knowledge is needed. The level may be and in fact IMO is different for different subjects. You teach people who got a 5 but would prefer a 6; noble teaches those who get a 6 but would prefer a 7. I no longer teach in school so I can be picky about whom I tutor haha. But I would certainly not be keen to take a student with a 6 at GCSE for German or French A level unless I knew there were very good reasons why they got a 6. Reasons that would not affect their A level study (such as illness in May of year 11).

My school dept once took a very keen student to do A level German with a C after passionate pleading. This turned out to be a terrible idea. Luckily everyone inc the student agreed thia after about two weeks.

@Blueburner not all will need an A at A level; but many will need higher than a D/E/U – which are the most likely outcomes from a grade 6 GCSE (almost 75%v based on the table above).

My son got a grade 5. Sixth form wouldn't accept him so he took 3 A Levels that they would accept and taught himself A level maths from a book. Just got a Grade C! I so want to go back and shove the result in their face!!

Personally I think people should follow their heart and ignore the stats. It might look good for the school to engineer results by forcing pupils into foundation papers and limiting who can take what A-Levels. It’s rarely good for the student.

Not every degree course requires an A in your maths A-Level. Many pupils can still get onto a course they want with a lower grade.

Also I think some A-Level maths teachers are rubbish. That was my experience. I got an A at GCSE but was in a pretty mixed ability group for A-Level. I saw first hand how a couple of the teachers were incapable of explaining tough concepts to the less academically able. The class did much better in the modules taught by another teacher who had the patience, time and capability to adapt to different learning styles.

Now you’re being a bit flippant here, I wouldn’t want a student without a standard pass in science doing psychology but that’s not the same thing is it..

And actually I have taught adults A level psychology intensive in the evenings and some them did not have science O level or GSCE and they did very well.

Really interesting, thanks for posting. I remember my old Maths teacher gently suggesting there might be subjects I’d do better at than Maths, I got a B when there were only As above that (no A stars yet.)

So do you think people should be allowed to take your psych A level course with a 3 in science? Presumably not? or at least they should be advised that they might find it a big challenge?

I have said this on here before but it's a true tale: in DS2's year 12 maths class there was a student who had got a 6 at GCSE. They had an early assessment which was challenging (Ds scored like 45/90) – this student scored 0. They left the room in tears. I don't personally think that was a positive experience for them. (I don't know if they continued with A level maths before anyone asks).

ETA: I don't think anyone is saying anyone should be told they are not good enough. More that "you might find this a real challenge and you may get a better grade in a different subject". Some YP would like to know this – if they are planning a degree not in a maths-related subject, they may prefer to be on track for a B in history rather than a D in maths. For example.

This is fascinating, and I would second the warnings about how hard they need to work at A-level for Maths.

My youngest dc got a 9 at GCSE and went on to do Maths, Further Maths and Physics at A level. Her sixth form wanted 8 at GCSE for Maths A-level, and 9 for FM.

DC is not in fact a natural mathematician despite the 9 at GCSE, and she worked like stink for A-level - it's three years since she finished A-levels and we are still using her scribbled sheets of maths practice to light the woodburner. Endless endless scrawled pages of problems - I was buying pads of file paper on repeat. She got her A*s in the end, but in her first term of a Physics degree decided that she'd reached Peak Maths and changed course.

A level maths really is brutally hard work, even if they start with a high GCSE grade.

Oh no that’s so sad.. that teacher sounds awful and needs some training on labelling and self fulfilling prophecy in the classroom.

You’re not wrong about students with 7/8s being out off A-Level Maths by the “A* or bust” crowd. My eldest had a solid 8 in GCSE maths and spent his whole maths A-level being told he wasn’t bright enough by one of the maths teachers, who only wanted the kids who got 9s and therefore also qualified for further maths.

We have quite a weird attitude to maths in this country. The same school I’ve described refuses to offer Core Maths because it’s not prestigious enough, and therefore leaves everyone with a 6 or 7 in GCSE maths with no option to keep up their numeracy at school. Be the best or just give up completely seems to be the mantra.

But the point is picking A levels should be about doing subjects you love and enjoy. Telling a young person you’re not good enough with a B is crap in my opinion. There is a big danger that a lot of labelling and self fulfilling prophecy happens when teachers start telling pupils this also

As I said in my first post appreciate this is well intentioned but it sucks and speaks volumes about the state of the system. I’m sure some people will find this helpful.

An excellent teacher is priceless but unfortunately often rare.

That’s brilliant to hear dustabsorber

I'm going to add to this- only do maths if your kid really loves it.

Mine got an 8 at GCSE with absolutely no effort - A level requires effort- he got a D with no effort - what a waste.