Private Boarding vs. Day School vs. Grammar

Leadership was a typo for “leads”

You could have got bullied at a comprehensive just as easily. Bullying at all schools is very common.

@Besafeeatcake

It has been proven in various studies that mixed ability at start of senior leadership to better results for both higher and lower performers so completely agree with this post.

Sorry, I don’t understand this sentence. Does it mean people who went to schools with mixed ability classes do better at senior leadership whether they were successful or not at academic work?

IMO the biggest factor in state secondary school outcomes (not grammar) is location.
If you live in an affluent area eg. St Albans / Harpenden, where house prices are high, the state secondary schools, in the main, tend to be very good. ......but on top of that, st Albans has amazing private schools.

All I would say that if you are going to use state secondary after 7 years of private primary, be prepared for a very different culture. Private schools tend to be more insulated from the inequalities in wider society.

And yet we know many kids who were tutored to within an inch of their lives as their parents just assumed grammar was better (despite local state results being 3%) different. Those kids are now struggling. They have come back to local state for a levels and are thriving with most university bound.

It has been proven in various studies that mixed ability at start of senior leadership to better results for both higher and lower performers so completely agree with this post.

@Breeze67 brilliant, so you must have a good idea of which school would be the best fit for your DC - go with that.

Unless you want to go into more detail as to what your DC is like (sporty, drama-obsessed, academic, shy, quiet, lively, boisterous....), which area you live in and which schools you are considering, I fail to see what else you want from this thread. It's your decision on whether you want to spend your money on private education. You've done your research, I am sure you've made the correct choice.

There are quite a few private schools near me that are world leading, there are others that I deem would be a complete waste of money........ that's my opinion.

@Breeze67 have you visited any secondary schools yet?

We’ve gone independent selective day school. The school can pay for excellent teachers, we can access teachers easily by email and they are accountable to us.

The school environment is good - minibuses for transport, nice classrooms, theatre sports pitches and coaches.

There are lots of clubs for quirkier kids- and the ethos fits our values. I feel it is value for money .

The setting discussion is interesting. Mine and DD’s experience of sets has been fairly similar. Early introduction for maths. Later introduction for science & mfl. English, humanities, arts etc. mixed ability. For me this had no ill effects. Nor was it some kind of scaring experience. For maths when topics and skills taught are very attainment dependent it is more important. For other subjects different groups can work. I don’t know what the outcomes will be for DD yet, but I can’t say I ever sit around worrying about her being in true mixed ability classes for history or English etc.

I don’t have strong feelings about sets, but on MN a look of people see highly selective schools or high levels of settings across all subjects within schools as the only route to academic success. There are other routes.

Agree. Completely grim, dismissive attitude. My DD has lots of dedicated teachers who care and teach well at her comprehensive.
Attitude to education, motivation & drive are partially influenced by schools and partially influenced by values at home. Young people can and do achieve well without attending any of the schools types in the title.
Surely rather than an abstract discussion the most effective way forward would be to look at published data ( results, inspection reports etc. ), visit the potential schools & maybe ask opinions of those who have direct knowledge and then weigh things up (costs, transport results, ethos, sports, groupings etc.) and decide which school is best for your child. Most of us don’t have a choice. If you do it is surely about specific schools. It isn’t is grammar or private better. It is which of these specific schools suits best.

I am arguing that most of a child's success stems from their innate ability combined with their family background, which is reflected in the time spent.

@Breeze67 I think this is true for primary school. Below the ages of 11 /12, the family is the main focus for the child and they get a lot of their support (or not) and are heavily influenced by their family.
If you have a decent local primary school, a bright NT child, motivated parents, there is little to no point in using private education IMO.

In secondary school, their peer group becomes more important to them. If your DC gets into a bad crowd, this can have devastating consequences to that DC's outcomes.

Private schools excel in providing 'soft skills' to DC. If you take an 'average' state school DC and compare against an 'average' privately educated DC, I would bet the privately educated DC would be more confident, self assured and polished. This is very hard to measure on a spreadsheet.

@Breeze67 you seem to be obsessing over numbers when most people use it to rule private education in or out. Most people use the spreadsheets to answer 'can we afford private education for our DC?'

You know your DC best. When you go around the different schools, don't you get a feeling that one environment will be better for your DC than the others? For us, it was the grammar school. For others it was private schools or the good local comp.

You are asking us if private education is 'worth it' but it's impossible to answer as we don't know you, your DC and the schools you are considering.
Mumsnet is very good at giving opinions on specific schools if you are willing to list them.

OP unfortunately you are under the illusion that private or selective are better.

It depends on the school. I have been to both and state was far far better in my experience.

My kids go to state and have multiple trips abroad, trips in country, over 80 clubs, Astro pitch, new full theatre, fitness centre etc.

We have three local private schools and they are too small for many clubs and teams.

There is a 3% results difference between our local state and the local granmars. Privates are behind by abiut 5% of state.

Your approach is wrong as you are generalising. Go and see all schools and make a decision then. No one here can tell you anything except their own experience which won’t be yours.

I think you might be overthinking this.

@Breeze67
The most obvious example would be buying a long term home.
You have done all the spreadsheets.
All the finances say you should buy house A as that would give you maximum returns, but in your bones you know you will be happier in House B.

I went to private school as the local secondaries were appalling. I really benefitted from the smaller class sizes and excellent pastoral care. My confidence was sky high.
I now live in an area with grammar schools, secondaries and excellent independents. My DC were lucky enough to get into grammar. They benefit from a motivated cohort and engaged parents. It's not for every child but mine seem happy.

We can't afford the £7k a term independent school although I have visited and the small class sizes do appear to deliver exceptional results as well as state of the art facilities.

If you are solely looking at spreadsheets for your decision making in this matter you will miss the bigger picture.

I’ve worked in primary and secondary state schools.i find the statement that state school teachers don’t care whether pupils pass or fail really insulting. State school staff, however, have far bigger classes and many more groups to teach. Discipline may take up more of the day (not in all schools). Of course they care, partly because most teachers want the best for pupils or they wouldn’t still be teaching and they are very much monitored and judged on outcomes.

Hmm. I'm not sure I agree.
State schools are exam factories because they need to jump through the ofsted hoops.

Private schools want to attract parents who can afford the fees so they also want to look good. Some private schools are less academically rigorous than others, but if they had a low GCSE pass rate then parents wouldn't pay to send their children there. Unless it is a school specifically for children with SEN or any other needs then they will still want academically able pupils.

I don't think you can say it. It is more complex. Not so black&WhiteThere are vast parts of the country where are no grammar schools at all. Or in Greater London, a population of 16 mln they have superselective like somebody mentioned 90 out of 3000 applying get in.
It means that middle class sends kids to state schools. Then there is location factor: house prices driven by good schools in that catchment area. And then you have grammar counties like Kent, Bucks etc. there are many grammars that are not super selective because there are many there and are just skimming entire cream of the local population like...40 percent- easier to get to. Attitudes vary there