Private Boarding vs. Day School vs. Grammar

It's only ONE subject homework though. You have everything else to complete, besides "a couple of hours reading three novels" 😂

Skimming the text reading literature is a very bad practice.

Of course, it will depend on the school and area. It is the case at the 3 grammars around here, particularly looking at the current KS3 and rising Y7s. Whereas my cousin's son is at a grammar school with very few non white children. Certainly don't mean all grammar schools are one way or the other, just how the ones around us have gone.

@LumiK it may vary from school to school but at my child's school, I don't recognise the predominantly Asian stereotype. From her friendship group, over half are white or of European descent - a couple of Jewish and eastern European children in there - and two more are mixed race African-European, with just one who is south Asian - which I presume is what you mean. It's truly a mixed group, far more so than my youngest child's comp which is about 50:50 south Asian:white.

I am afraid you need to find out more about Oxbridge entry

An Oxbridge offer isn't just A and A—for most STEM subjects, it's straight Astars. They don't use those grades as a minor 'requirement'; they use them to screen out anyone who hasn't put in the massive quantity of daily homework and practice required to get those top marks. You cannot even get an interview room code without the grades. *
Maths, Science is not something that you can get A* just paying attention at the school during the lessons. It is a gradual build up over the years. Hard work.

@Breeze67 Oxford look for additional breadth. The basic curriculum isn’t enough. Dc need to be articulate and obviously do well in the tests. Most dc apply with a GCSE profile and no A level results. Going to private school is not a huge positive unless dc do the extra needed.

There are so many variables, there are some good state schools and some rotten independents!

I recently pulled my daughter from an independent primary school in favour of a local state school. I lost faith in the school completely for a number of reasons and I realised the value for money was actually poor. Yeah they get kids into grammar schools, but largely through hot housing and insisting they go to 11+ school as well! Additionally the facilities and class sizes (which you'd expect more from) were no better than any normal state school, so it made no sense!

We then had to consider, do we still pursue the grammar school route, consider a private secondary or send her to the secondary part of her current school (it's a through school, 4-18)

I went to a grammar school and they have their place. My daughter is very bright but she's not particularly competitive, nor does she love school. For that reason, I don't think the competitive and pushy selective environment is right for her. The other offputting factor is the changing demographic that I've seen both in 11+ school and the photos on the grammar school social media. I don't care if MN think it makes me a rabid racist, I'd rather she didn't go to a majority Asian school.

Your argument treats homework like mindless busywork, which is just nonsense. In the real world, homework addresses newly introduced concepts that students haven't mastered yet. It is the very vehicle for deep study, not an alternative to it. You can't bypass the hard work of learning the core curriculum and leap straight to 'exceptional niche achievements'-the fundamentals matter

The 'quality over quantity' argument here is a total fallacy. You cannot bypass the 'quantity' phase of learning and magically leap into high-quality, original work. Achieving something exceptional in a niche requires a massive foundation of repetitive, structured practice first. The standard curriculum and homework are how you build that foundational knowledge. Calling it 'quantity over quality' completely misunderstands how deep learning actually works- you need the basic tools before you can build something original.

Please implement that " quality over quantity" on 11+ to superselective grammar first and you see the results.

I think Dcs have to be a bit more dedicated over homework at day schools. Some might stay open for dc to do prep on the premises. My DDs boarded and prep time was built in after light tea in dedicated work areas. Worked for them. They did what was required according to their reports!

A lot of boarding and day schools are easier to get into than grammars unless you are in Bucks or Kent with county systems and lots of grammars taking a larger %. Move to a grammar area if you want one.

Actually my daughter did French and is very much capable of holding a conversation. It didn't require three hours work a night or even close.

You made me laugh. As a fluent speaker of several languages I can confirm, you either have a multi rounded genius at home or simply you have no idea what you are talking about

. 3 hours per week at School doesn't give opportunity to ever learn at a level where you can have a comfortable conversation because there are at least two dozens of kids in the class. The ability to speak after school is limited to asking basic questions

Language Learning Hours Breakdown (French)
The numbers below reflect cumulative hours—meaning the total number of hours required starting from an absolute beginner level.
The CEFR Guidelines (Alliance Française)
These estimates represent guided learning hours (classroom time or structured self-study) required to reach each official European framework level:

• A1 (Beginner): 60 to 100 hours
• A2 (Elementary): 160 to 200 hours
• B1 (Intermediate): 360 to 400 hours
• B2 (Upper-Intermediate): 560 to 650 hours
• C1 (Advanced): 810 to 950 hours
• C2 (Mastery): 1,060 to 1,200+ hours

Note: Reaching B1 takes roughly 400 hours. Moving from B1 to C1 requires an additional 450 to 550 hours, which effectively doubles the total time commitment.

• During the first three years of secondary school (Key Stage 3), number of hours adds up to just 38 to 76 hours of French per year. And this is not 1:1 but in the classroom of two dozen of kids

• After 3 years, a student has racked up only 120 to 220 total hours. According to the official CEFR scale we looked at earlier, that barely gets them to an A2 level -and that’s assuming they were paying perfect attention.

I believe in quality over quantity;

The competition to top Universities is that one has to have quantity with a good quality.
Nobody is discussing doing homework without paying attention to it .

I have two master degrees including one from the very good US Uni. I do not believe things come from the air without opening a book.

Sorry I just cannot comprehend all this speculations based on web sites info 😂

I gave a specific example of HW for a specific age group and asked why it doesn't look like a light touch HW that can be done in 30 minutes.

No one can read 3 proper novels in 30 minutes, however super bright they may be.

Friends in y7 at SPGS regularly do HW that is unheard of in y7 state.

How much time an 11yo would usually need to read three novels like "Pride and Prejudice" and write an essay or deliver a presentation on a particular theme from the novels? My DC is a voracious reader but even one novel would take at least a week.

Actually my daughter did French and is very much capable of holding a conversation. It didn't require three hours work a night or even close. And she absolutely was not spending an hour a night on homework in lower years or even being set as much as that. Up to five hours a week is very different from what you described, especially as it wasn't actually five hours a week but often only about an hour or two a week in total.

I don't think you have read anything that I said properly and you obviously think I am not telling the truth. You just want to argue that your approach is the only right one. Nobody has mentioned crochet.

As DD received an excellent education from a school that understood how to foster learning without setting pointless busywork and is off to Oxford in the autumn without having to have spent all her evenings doing schoolwork, I'll leave it there.

Maybe they actually are leaving school capable of having a conversation in French? Something very rare without a regular homework, practice and revisions...

There was a homework timetable which allowed for up to an hour a night in the lower years
So it is 5 hours per week. If you add up what I listed it is similar. I bet before tests it was more

Other than that she just paid attention in class and did what homework was set.

Like in every school in top sets. So she was doing homework....

In practice, a lot of this was 'read this poem', or spend twenty minutes on the presentation due in two weeks time, or nothing was set in the slot allocated because they'd finished what needed to be done in class.

Contemporary education is not only about poems, presentations and crocheting. There is Mathematics, Science, Geography, History and there are tests and required regular revisions.
Most of the young people will have huge problem with finding a job,- shrinking job market, today’s youth face an uphill battle. With AI and robotics advancing rapidly, students have to be five times better than the competition just to pursue careers that will still exist tomorrow.

Bit horrified at that SPS workload, actually! I'll ask DD at some point if that is really accurate as she had plenty of friends at the boys' school.

There was a homework timetable which allowed for up to an hour a night in the lower years. In practice, a lot of this was 'read this poem', or spend twenty minutes on the presentation due in two weeks time, or nothing was set in the slot allocated because they'd finished what needed to be done in class.

Honestly, the workload was nowhere near that. And that is also the wrong school.

Yes, of course she revised before her GCSEs and A Levels. Other than that she just paid attention in class and did what homework was set.

According to the school's structural guidelines and curriculum outlines:

• For Years 9, 10, and 11 (GCSEs): > "Homework is set for every school day and normally takes about two hours."

https://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/about-st-pauls/13plus/?hl=en-GB#:~:text=All%20pupils%20also%20have%20one,normally%20takes%20about%20two%20hours.

• For the Sixth Form (A-Levels): > "Pupils in Years 12–13 are encouraged to spend a minimum of 15 hours each week on homework and private study." (Which breaks down to about 3 hours a day).

https://www.stpaulsschool.org.uk/about-st-pauls/13plus/?hl=en-GB#:~:text=Pupils%20in%20Years%2012%E2%80%9313,flexi%2Dboarding%20places%20are%20available.

You are saying that she didn't have to study? Maybe she did it like my son in the library and you were not aware