Private Boarding vs. Day School vs. Grammar

@WhatWouldGinDo Yes, money does follow talent and they do adjust income levels - not all schools are the same.

I don't know about anyone else but DD did the vast majority of it herself. I helped her by showing her some craft and sewing techniques at one point (one of the tasks is to do a visual representation related to the books). It is a competition with prizes for the best projects and she did very well.

All her analysis and creative writing was carried out entirely independently. As well as analysis and creative writing, the other task is to write an overview of what the experience of completing the project taught them. It is mainly IMO about them teaching themselves to learn independently rather than exactly what they learn about the books involved, though that is a nice side benefit. Any child whose parents did it for them or had heavy involvement won't have learnt those lessons which seems like a bit of a missed opportunity to me. Not everyone is lucky enough to get such engaging things to do at school. Even choosing the books is an interesting exercise in academic research. DD thought long and hard about it and chose books that all had something in common so she could compare and contrast them.

Just out of interest, eg in Jane Eyre, how do you think 11yo could understand the themes of sex and passion, restrictive marriage, race (especially in a highly controversial context of a Creol being mentally unstable and violent), faith (especially different denominations when the modern society is almost 100% atheist and children haven't got a clue) etc?

In fact, Jane Eyre was one of DD's chosen books and she opted to also read Wide Sargasso Sea as an extra book and background which I think gave her some interesting perspectives. But she has read all the books she included again since then and freely admits that she did not fully grasp them at the time and got a lot more out of her rereading. There were certain parts of it that she understood more than others because of her own personal life experiences. But the school is looking at the work produced in the context of 11 and 12 year olds and what it is possible for them to achieve so I am sure they are well aware that none of them will fully grasp all the nuances.

It's no secret that at all top schools - Kings, SP, SPGS, even City parents sometimes do part of the projects for DC. The workload is unmanageable otherwise as many DC also do sport and music at very high levels. I know of DC (not at SPGS) that regularly do HW till 11pm. There are not enough hours in the day.

That is exactly what I am saying. I don't believe in the top performing schools without a lot of hard work and "parental support"

🤦‍♀️🙄

It is a very interesting and stimulating HW for sure.
Parents did it in a couple of weeks 😁 (not the reading of course as it's a passive skill and enjoyable activity).

Just out of interest, eg in Jane Eyre, how do you think 11yo could understand the themes of sex and passion, restrictive marriage, race (especially in a highly controversial context of a Creol being mentally unstable and violent), faith (especially different denominations when the modern society is almost 100% atheist and children haven't got a clue) etc? I'm not saying it's not age appropriate, my DC reads Homer which is basically horror stories with constant wars, murders, monsters etc and I'm not fazed. I'm saying it's too deep for an independent analysis at this age. It's very good they're being stretched, but the stretch wouldn't happen without parents' direct involvement.

It's no secret that at all top schools - Kings, SP, SPGS, even City parents sometimes do part of the projects for DC. The workload is unmanageable otherwise as many DC also do sport and music at very high levels. I know of DC (not at SPGS) that regularly do HW till 11pm. There are not enough hours in the day.

Not all do that of course and I'm not saying SPGS is the most pressurised environment either, but it's like with tutoring - people do not advertise what they're doing.

I repeat: If you don't believe me, you're welcome to check my statements. With whomever you like.

There are no issues here 😁🤦‍♀️ We were just discussing HW, not fighting.

Neither there were any attack until your rude opening sentence.

The fact that it is even possible to do a term long assignment in a single week tells you everything you need to know about how much work is actually required. DD did hers over a longish period and really enjoyed it.

Addressing issues directly, providing facts to support arguments and avoiding ad hominem attacks is not exclusive to SPGS. In the same way that most "Christian" values are not exclusive to Christianity.

It's 100% true about music standards.

But back to the OP's original question. There is a huge difference in private schools too. There are some which get great results but really, the offering is about the same as a grammar except you have 20 in a class instead of 30. (These tend to be the former grammar schools that went independent rather than go comprehensive). But you can get private schools which offer the much more holistic experience, with a real emphasis on art, music, drama, and sport (especially the latter).

But what I think the best private schools offer is the x factor - the expectations seem to be higher in private schools, not just academically but in everything. What pupils will achieve, what they will like, what standards of dress they should have, how they should speak and interact with others. One of my DC's first experiences at a private school was when the head stuck out their hand to shake my 7 year old's hand. No adult had ever done that and that creates a standard which i just don't see in the state sector.

I notice it in music - at one top ranking state school where i have experience, the (amazing) music department is rightly praised but the music they do is absolutely not in the same league as at the top ranking private school that I know. The requirements for the orchestra are Grade 5 or up in the state school but grade 8 or above for popular instruments means that the private school can expose the children to a very different level of music. And the state school does almost all modern music, with very very limited exposure to the great classical works that are absolutely the bread and butter at the private school.

Wow the SPGS parent's style 😂
@BonjourCrisette is not a very typical representation :)

On bursaries - the larger, best endowed schools have surprisingly high income level cut offs for the most talented children (and the more they want the child, the higher the income). At a conference a few years ago, it was recognised by some of the heads that they are losing the children of professionals and they want to keep them to create a (slightly) better socio-economic mix. But sadly, very few schools have the funds to do so (and if people were aware of just how much some seemingly successful schools were struggling, they would be more sympathetic). But a bursary /finance team can be savvy and see that it is better to get 3 x 70% of the fees than 0 X 100% (particularly if the family is a helpful family that contributes their time to the school).

@Breeze67 Bursaries at independent schools are means tested. Sometimes a parent really will have to consider if they can afford their contribution because not all bursaries are 100%. Parents do need to consider their contribution and so do staff! Their subsidised places are not bursaries. Their dc are not in any competition for the money. Even so, not all staff will take up a place for dc.

Many bursaries are paid from fee income. As a result, schools are being very careful about who is offered what. Other schools have money invested over centuries (the boys schools) and often very generous old boy donors. As a result, they remain very generous. At the other end, some schools are not flourishing and cannot put up fees so bursaries are minimal and will go to existing dc.

It doesn’t really matter about how a family lives - it’s about whether they qualify under the rules and these vary from school to school. Some people I knew had a low income - but granny paid for everything. They rented their house and looked “poor”. They weren’t really!

Sports academies are very different to selective Independent schools. Purpose to provide quality education as a fall back should sports not go to plan.

Selective academic Independent schools, grammars are contracted to the provision of academic excellence and Co curricular enrichment.

Any bursary or fee remissions should follow the same guidelines and the best candidate should earn the funding. Just as the best athlete would win a place at a sports training academy. Merit based.

With him it is more about level of expectations. Christiano Renaldo doesn't hit that winning goal every match. But luckly he is not " greatful" that the school covers his fees

Sport by its very nature is pressure to perform. So the lesson is maybe that path is not for that child. If they struggle at school level professional sport won’t be an option. You can handle pressure or not. Thats the only option for professional athletes and there are specific schools to provide athletic and holistic excellence.

The point is Independent schools promise Co curricular, selective enrolment, enrichment. The moment they stop providing that they become worthless. Thats exactly what’s happening with each passing year ….

But even with those gifted kids... I know a parent whose child was gifted at sport. He has terrible pressure to perform. And if he didn't perform during matches between school the level of disappointment was awful.

Check with whomever you like. The assignment is given before the end of second term, in late March. Many of the girls do some or all of the reading during the 3.5 weeks of the spring holiday. They're not given much other English homework during the third term because they're supposed to be working towards this presentation. Your friend's DD might have chosen to do all the reading and the presentation over the May half-term but she could have done it during the spring holiday or gradually in May or early June; the girls know when the deadline is and are expected to manage their own schedules.

I do not believe that the likes of Pride and Prejudice and Jane Eyre are unusual reading for that age; the girls are not expected to expound on Joyce. The girls read, discuss and analyze books in class together in the first two terms. This assignment is for them to apply independently what they were taught as best they can. It is understood that they will not all produce graduate thesis quality work.

Bursary should be strictly monitored and “charitable status” should come with strict guidelines not up to individual independent schools to offer minimal token gestures to ‘the poor’

All staff perks and fee remissions should be means tested. Any gifted child seeking award should follow the same process. Equality.

Government picks up the bill at state and grammar.

Families directly pick up the bill at Independent and increasingly it’s not only their own bill (for their own children)

https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/parenting/5551437-independent-schools-in-2026-are-full-fees-still-worth-paying?reply=153382614

No. Bursary funds are being used with other “remissions” for NON means tested blanket staff discounts and perks. Those who cannot afford the VAT even with 50% fee remission are also! Having that covered by the Full fee investment and sacrifice of the full fee paying accounts.

It’s not the VAT that’s having wealthy families jumping ship it’s the fact that although paying more their own children are having to live on rations, austerity measures, cuts, cancelled advertised co curricular to cover fee deficits on top of their own! Unsustainable.

www.pepf.co.uk/wp-content/uploads/2025/04/InvestigatingBursaries_PEPFReport_010425-1.pdf