Private Boarding vs. Day School vs. Grammar

They were obviously clever enough to pass anyway.

I went to a failing private school and an outstanding comp and got a much better education (and was much happier) at the comp. So I agree with everyone else that you need to compare individual schools. Where I am, there's only a couple of small private schools and they mostly seem full of children with SEN who couldn't cope with mainstream. If you want a bigger private school, you need to commute, which I didn't want for my kids, even if we could have afforded it.
State schools interestingly get better results for core subjects like maths and English, once you control the stats for wealth. (Ie an upper middle class child at a state school will typically get a better maths GCSE than they would at private). Private schools get better results in subjects like music and drama, but if that's something you want for your kid, you can provide it out of school at a fraction of the cost.
All schools are different too. Round here our state options include a superselective grammar, two ex-private schools who academised, single gender and mixed state schools, religious schools and schools with 60% FSM. You can't clump them all into 'state schools'.

DH and I both went to state and hated every second of it. The behaviour, the bullying if you showed the slightest interest in wanting to learn was awful, so we did village primary then flexi boarding school. It’s cost a fortune, but money well spent imo. Days were long 8am -6pm, then they can stay till 9pm if not a boarding night. They’ve both left with good exam results, good friends, good sports skills and a positive school experience.
Depends on your state options of course, but ours were poor so no regrets! We wouldn't be able to afford it now though with the VAT increase - we only had a year of inflated fees.

(disclaimer- 3 kids through independent school so clearly feel it was worth it.)

i don’t agree with your maths based approach to the assessing the value of the education but adopting your method for the purposes of this post, there’s a flaw in your calculations in that the school day at most independents is typically at least an hour longer than most state schools. So at least 5 extra hours of schooling per week and 170 per year, which offsets the additional weeks of holiday argument.

schools use ability setting (streaming) - sets at Maths English Science and later other subjects

The vast majority of UK schools use setting in Math from Year 8 at latest, but few set in other subjects, except possibly English, before GCSE.

@Breeze67

My primary concern is the disruption and mixed academic abilities in comprehensive state schools,

As I mentioned in the other thread, you don't seem to realize that schools use ability setting (streaming) - sets at Maths English Science and later other subjects.

Also, regarding student disruption: I was actually a disruptive kid myself at a top school, yet I managed to graduate with two master's degrees, including an MBA from a famous university in California. My "disruption" at scho consisted of talking too much to my peers at the wrong moments or questioning the teachers' assumptions—always politely, but it was considered disruptive nonetheless because they got engaged in discussions with me about a specific detail and forgot to teach
My point is that grammar schools are full of intelligent, disruptive kids. The ones who are never disruptive are often just "Yes, Madam" students who aren't necessarily independent thinkers.

I feel like it’s too general an answer without looking at specific schools.

I’m in Herts- we have grammars/academically selective schools, some very competitive private schools, boarding schools, some private schools where the main criteria is being able to afford it and of course state schools that are not selective in any way.

It entirely depends on the child and what suits them best. I only have one DC who is very academic, likes learning and hates a disruptive environment so we are looking at grammars or academic private schools. None of these schools would suit DNephew at all because he’s a very different person with his own talents.

I don’t have a need for my DC to board and they haven’t expressed an interest in doing so, so it’s not something we are considering. Cost is also a factor here. My Dad boarded from age 13 and loved it so I’m in no way against it. Family friends have gone to Millfield to support their sporting endeavours and again have been very happy.

Not really, but if I did, I wouldn't go on mumsnet and pull out all kinds of stats about how opting for the thing I was opting for made no monetary sense.

And you haven't bought it yet. You can decide not to buy it at any time between now and next March.

Sadly, I guess I have to take a day private school route if we do not get into a grammar school, even if I do not believe the day private option is worth it based on my calculation.

You don’t have to. If you don’t think it’s worth the money, then don’t.

I agree that a visit to the British Museum is likely to be very similar. Though depending on the state school it may not be possible to run as many trips as in a private school. For instance, my child went on a minimum of two trips to the theatre per term for Drama GCSE. Her friend doing Drama GCSE at a good state school did not go to the theatre once with school.

The funding and manpower available for sports days is likely to be considerably higher in the independent sector. Plus children are likely to spend a lot more lesson time doing sport in the independent sector. They are more likely to get the chance to try a wide variety of sports out.

If you are in a Maths lesson, in the school my daughter went to you would definitely be taught by someone with at least one degree in Maths. If you were in a Maths lesson in her friend's school, you have a reasonable chance of being taught by someone with no degrees in Maths. Maths and Sciences are notorious shortage subjects for teachers.

It was our experience that when my child struggled with anything teachers had plenty of time to help her and the desire to do so. Not universally the case at her friend's school.

@Breeze67 have you entered your DD for grammar and private school exams this autumn? Deadlines are coming up, if not already passed, so get your skates on.

Most of us are comparing a few options eg where we live, we were likely to get one particular state secondary which was OK, but huge, and less likely to get the next nearest state, which had better facilities but worse teaching.

We looked at 3 private schools and DS sat the exams for 2. No grammar schools. In our view, both private schools were better than our local state and one in particular was better for travel convenience, slightly less good for academics. Luckily he got into that one.

Very few people sit down with an abstract equation of percentage of hours at school to make this decision in the way you (or AI) are suggesting.

Whether it’s museum trips, sports days, or classroom activities, the core experience cannot be vastly different.

I think the core experience and approach can actually be very different!

I’d also knock 8h of sleep out of each day when doing your calculations and compare number of school days like for like (a state school will have 13-14 weeks of holiday where a private school might have 18-20 weeks)

There were no grammar schools in my area, there were two private schools, a state with boarding and the local comp. My parents were very happy to help me and I may still have had the extra maths but I was not naturally academic nor self motivated. Thar grades I got were still mostly C's with a couple of B's but the best i could. I went state for 6th form and left with two E's and a U.

In our case:
We don't have any grammar schools in our county so DD went to the local (rather good) comprehensive school
DD had a lot of support for GCSEs from me.
She had a tutor for maths.
She is quite academic, not as motivated for GCSEs as she was for A levels/degree/post grad degree, but that was due to emotional maturity.

Basically, DD thrived academically at her school. We seriously considered an independent school, but it basically came down to cost. It meant that we could afford a tutor when it was required and we could support her through university.

I went private, my DH was state. He refused to even consider state for his two (my gorgeous SC). My DD went state - total cluster*ck of behavioural policies and large class control so as soon as I had the money I moved her to private. Her experience has been amazing - everything from attitude, what they're focused on, covid provision, help and support with any areas she has struggled with, bringing her up to speed in maths and English after 2 years in state primary, resources / facilities, ability to do extra curricular (state could only accommodate X places for music lessons).

HOWEVER I only did it when I had plenty of money spare - and frankly the cost now vs even 10 yrs ago is becoming beyond prohibitive. Had I not reached a strong financial position (and by that I mean comfortably paying for school AND going on nice holidays and affording household stuff) I would have thrown money at tutors and experiences at home.

The fact of your breakdown suggests to me that sending DD private is potentially a financial step too far

PS. When your DD is 15 she'll think you're largely ridiculous and won't want to spend much time with you. Some boarding at 13+ has been very much enjoyed by my DD (plus chosen by her) - it's 24 hrs a day with friends.

Unfortunately yes, from what i remember bullying wasn't a big issue at my school but I was a musician which wasn't as well respected as academia or sports. We had a lot of very high scoring students whereas i was a straight C girl. When I left my self esteem was on the floor. It took years to work it up, but it will never be high. My school days were a carousel of 'not good enough' even stuff i originally thought i was good at didn't matter because there was always someone better than me. That's the risk you take going to a selective school.

If you are in a Grammar school area is your child able enough to get into one? It does depend where you are but in some areas with selective state education parents are not choosing between all of your 3 options - if your child is unlikely to get a place in a selective school its a non selective or private choice, if they will get a place it’s grammar/ selective or private (and selective schools aren ‘t necessarily disruption free) .
And non selective state schools vary a lot with regard to how they deal with mixed ability and behaviour - the important question is what are the actual schools you would be considering like, whichever group they fall into.

There are only 163 grammar schools in England, 65 in NI, and none at all in Scotland or Wales. They just aren't on the radar for the vast majority of parents. Not that you would know this the way they are spoken about so blithely on Mumsnet.

Our nearest one is a super-selective and 2 hours away - and we are hardly in the middle of nowhere.

@Breeze67 your writing style is very AI.

The majority of children in England (don't know about the other three nations) do not live near enough to a grammar school to go to one. If I was choosing between a grammar and private, and didn't have to move house to a grammar area, I would probably choose grammar.

ETA but your 'tiny fraction of overall hours at school' calculation cuts both ways - if you wholeheartedly believe that, send your child to the worst school you can find, as it doesn't make a difference, in your eyes...