Extra time

Oh this is my nephew! So much pressure, he comes out totally deflated. He says it’s all there in his head but can’t get the answers out. What to do?

*jumping to

I’m not saying that it’s their job or that they should take it up with their management. I am suggesting that they think about the issue a little more widely before jumping up a full throated defence of the current system which is so clearly flawed.

I have no experience of Private Scools and strongly object to paying for privilege including extra time. However, the poster who said it's not the invigilator's job to question ET is correct. I worked as an invigilator for 5 years after retiring from teaching and I was told who was allowed extra time. I had no more role in the decision making than the school cook or grounds staff. It was not my job and, in a part time occasional job on slightly above minimum wage, decisions like that were way above my pay grade.

Oh yes, I’m sure there’s nothing to look at here and it’s just nosey people jumping to ignorant assumptions… 🙄 All the whataboutery on this thread does not negate the fact that we have a system where those with money can pay and push for extra-time. The system as it stands is wide open for abuse. As a teacher I see this all the time. I realise that those who have children with extra-time clearly do not want to think about this or for anything to change, but there are wider issues at play. I have never known a private school parent to pay for a diagnosis and not get results. They are fee paying customers in a very competitive market, and private schools are more than happy to accommodate them. This should not be the case. The existence of tutors etc is irrelevant- these are not exam board sanctioned like extra-time. Two wrongs don’t make a right.

On another note, pupils at private schools are allowed to sit IGCSEs which were banned in state schools by Gove. Most, including those I’ve worked in, do this, with children allowed to submit 50% of their assessed GCSE in some subjects as coursework. Much easier and much less stressful for a large proportion of students. State schools do not have the same option to do this. Apologies for going off topic, but once you see the big picture it’s pretty disturbing.

For those who do not like hearing uncomfortable truths- ‘why don’t you complain to the exam board?’ / ‘it’s none of my business who gets extra-time’ / ‘how should I know if the system is fair’ - this is the precise reason why I post on threads like this. The conversation quickly moves from initial outright defence of the existing system, to such posters saying that they couldn’t possibly know what goes on in schools, which is interesting in itself. I am trying to shed light on what I see going on and how it benefits the most privileged in society. I think it is something that is / will be investigated further and I expect it to cause outrage at a national level.

Every single student in DS1’s independent school got extra time.

As it happens, it’s a special school, but it’s easy to jump to conclusions isn’t it?

It was nowhere close to that in the school where I invigilated. I haven't worked there since Covid but I think they have tightened up if anything.

Meanwhile it's absolutely nowhere close to that in my school

Re 'extra time in real life'.

People who know they have slow processing won't go for / succeed in high pressure quick thinking jobs. They will generally choose jobs that play to their strengths.

(See also arguments that some kids should just learn to cope with crowded noisy secondary schools, which are in fact unlike the majority of work places.)

I may not have explained that very well.

The argument has been made on the thread that a higher proportion of those in private schools have extra time, because parents can afford to pay for a diagnosis. There is a perception that this gives them an unfair advantage.

It could however be argued that parents that have the funds to pay for a tutor, so their child has 1-2-1 or small group tuition, to increase their knowledge, understanding and exam technique is also unfair. It may be more likely to cause an increase in exam grade than extra time.

If extra time is unfair for those that don't get it, why isn't extra tuition also seen as unfair.

The extra time won't make any difference if the child doesn't know the answer anyway. The extra tuition means a child is more likely to know the answer.

Would be interesting to know how many of those saying extra time is unfair, would happily pay for a tutor, without seeing it as unfair.

Two different issues. Both can be impacted by ability of parents to pay for something (although extra time can be given without a diagnosis, and diagnosis doesn't automatically mean extra time). Both can impact a child's grade, and based on the reasoning of some, impact on another child's grade due to grade boundaries.

I am not defending private education. DC is not in a private school - but instead is in the local comprehensive, with a higher than average number of pupils on free school meals.

My ds says that it's often approx 40-50% of the class who get extra time. Two of his closest academically bright friends get the extra time because they like to take their time writing. Both their parents are the pushy types.

1. No-one is being squeezed down into the grade 3 category because someone got extra time. Unless schools are totally faking the evidence the exam board require with the applications for access arrangements.
2. The system is not easy to game, it requires 3 pieces of evidence of work with extra time being used that has been carefully marked by the teacher, along with a clear statement about normal way of working from the teacher. There would be no opportunity for a parent to game the system, unless they were home-educating parents or had bribed the teachers. Nothing the parents submit would be used as evidence by the exam boards, except in the instance of home education.
3. The system is not at all wide open, it requires large amounts of evidence to be collected and submitted which the exam boards will only accept if it has been processed in the right way by the right people.

Jobs may well involve a time element but GCSEs are about knowledge not ability to write fast. Without extra time my DC would fail every exam. Yes they are going to struggle hugely to get a job but at least now they can evidence that they do have knowledge and if given a chance in a steady job they could succeed.

Are you deliberately being obtuse?
invigilators do not have access to data to determine if the system is being abused. Do you actually believe we know how many pupils have extra time in all the schools in the area where we work? Do you think we have knowledge of access arrangement trends across all schools?
It isn’t our job to question why someone has extra time or to question whether they deserve it. It’s none of our business and rightly so.
Our role is to uphold the exam regulations and ensure those students with access arrangements receive their extra time, rest breaks, scribe…etc etc. We are there to support students, not judge them.
No doubt JCQ has detailed information on trends and data on access arrangements in private v state schools. Why not contact them with your concerns?

GCSEs are marked on %. So there isn't a set pass grade. The top say 2% get a Grade 9, then then next 5% get a grade 8. I don't agree with it, but it does mean that if someone has extra time and achieves a higher grade than you, then you do get knocked down the pecking order. A lot of the students I teach genuinely need extra time, but the system is goosed at the moment. There is no need for a diagnosis or anything. i just say I think they need extra time. Implement it. Collect the records and then they have extra time. As a teacher it feels chaotic and that I am responsible for deciding and implementing who gets extra time and I don't feel qualified for it. It used to be we were given a list that was already decided based on I guess official diagnosis.

Hmmm, ever been to a job interview with screening or a timed practical task involved? Of course we judge people on those things all of the time.

This is false equivalence. Exam boards can’t influence the use of private tutors even if they wished to, but they can tighten up the restrictions on extra-time.

The same argument could be used by those paying for tutors.
A child may/may not have an ALN or other need that warrants additional time, but parents that can afford it can pay for tutors. Those that can't afford it don't.
Paying for a tutor to fill any gaps in knowledge and help with exam technique, may for some be more likely to improve an exam grade than extra time.

The extra time won't help if the child doesn't know the subject/answer to the question. For those than do know the information, but may take longer eg for their brain to process things, to physically write etc, then it means they have the opportunity to demonstrate that knowledge in tge sahe way as others

I teach an essay based A level subject and have quite a range of abilities. I have quite a number of students who get extra time and definitely need it.

students shouldn’t be getting lower grades just because they read slower or write slower than others. In real life we don’t judge somebody on how quickly they can write/ read/ process information.

The extra time levels the playing field. All my current students use their extra time in my subject otherwise they would lose it. It has to be their normal way of working.

Honestly ET is not going to help a student who doesn’t have the knowledge or understanding but to many of my students the extra time allows them to achieve the grade which reflects their ability shown in lessons.

Thing is, grade boundaries are competitive. For all those with extra time, others are being squeezed down into the Grade 3 category. In the case of pay-for-diagnosis this could mean a privileged private school child with parents who know how to game the system pushing a less advantaged child under the cut off. Extra time should be much rarer than it is. At the moment the system is wide open, and when that happens you are inviting abuse. I’m afraid I believe that with 30% and upwards of kids in some schools getting extra time, that this is what we are seeing.

The only justification I see on this thread is - I don’t have to question this / it’s not my job to know about this / it’s none of my business etc, whilst defending a system that is open to abuse.

I guess the question is purpose?
Why do people get GCSEs?
Do they do into jobs which rely on the fact they can do long bits of writing or complicated maths sums in 2 hours say?

Some jobs, which require you to have GCSEs, would absolutely require you to be able to think as quickly as an exam would or even more quickly - a paramedic for example. However many jobs simply wouldn't require this. In my job as a Teaching Assistant, I have never had to recall information very quickly under extreme pressure. Some pressure yes, not with all the time in the world, but my boss doesn't say I need to write mid term reports on all my students in 3 hours!

I think exams are designed to elicit information from students in this way because that is the easiest way to assess everyone using the same tools to give a baseline ability which can be measured. However, for most people, they aren't going to fail in jobs because their writing speed is slow or because they can't recall major amounts of information uber fast. How then would it benefit society if these people who have extra time, didn't and just got lower grades? Would society be better because someone's exam results makes it look like they haven't got the ability to do a job, when that job doesn't require them to do the thing that made them fail their exam?

I have a DC in a state school who gets a lot of extra time. Ten minutes extra might seem nice but when you have significant extra time it becomes incredibly tiring to have to concentrate for so long. I also agree with the PP about the impact on revision - doing ‘active’ revision such as answering past papers, drawing up mind maps, or taking notes takes too much time so it is impossible to get through the course material.

Be glad these kids are getting the support they need.

I’m autistic, got ADHD and probably mild dyslexia too. I could definitely have done with extra time for English Language, Literature and other essay-based subjects. I didn’t need extra time for maths. I don’t have the executive functioning of a neurotypical person which makes planning and organizing the ideas for an essay very difficult. I also tend to get a jumble of ideas at once and get overwhelmed by the sheer number of them and find it impossible to decide which ideas are the most important.

FWIW, DC2 has 25% extra time in exams and rarely needs it.

In terms of private school - a lot of children in private schools have struggled in state school due to things like autism, dyslexia, etc. Bright children who were being failed in state school. These children are often able to thrive in private schools but they still have the disability that led their parents to pull them out of state school in the first place. They have an ‘advantage’ in that parents have been able to afford, often with significant struggle, to send them to private schools where others with the same issues are failed by state. It isn’t the fact they are actually supported with their disability that is unfair, it is that many children aren’t supported y the state that is unfair.

in the school where I invigilate I have not seen a huge increase in extra time and have seen an increase in rest breaks.
The number of students requiring separate accommodation due to anxiety has decreased and learners are encouraged to sit exams in the main hall sitting at the back or front (their preference). Ime this a positive change.
its hard to comment on whether x student should have extra time as I don’t know the reason for the award and it’s none of my business.
I only have limited experience of private school access arrangements and, contrary to your assertion that wealthy parents are abusing the system my Dd did not receive extra time in all four a levels despite me ‘paying’ for the evidence!