Unsuccessful grammar school appeal

Sorry but I think it is completely out of order to bring up pupil premium kids, or armed forces kids or out of area kids. The oversubscription criteria are clearly published well in advance and you know what category your DC falls into, if you bother to read it.
Every year there are people who do not do the amount of prep required or do not ask for extra time and then try and blame other kids for taking their places. The effort should have been put in before the tests.
You do not need to pay an external tutor if you are educated yourself and can clearly write on MN. CGP books and time invested well in advance has exactly the same outcome. If you do not prepare in advance, then best to blame yourself, not pupil premium kids!

I think it's absolutely fine to be disappointed when some or all of the following are true:

1. if they were a girl with the same score they'd have got into the girls' grammar.
2. if they'd have lived in the next town they'd have got into that grammar.
3. if they'd got the same score at any point over the last 10 years they'd have got a place.
4. children scoring 20 marks less on pp have places.
5. non local children have around a third of the spaces.
6. children whose parents can afford tutoring but are of lower ability have places.

There is absolutely nothing any of us can do now and nobody wants the disruption of moving a child mid year even if places did come up, which they won't to that extent. But it's OK to smart from the unjustness of it even when the rules have been followed. We just need to dust ourselves off and move on to the next appeal.

I know the 2nd school and it doesn't go on distance but uses zones. There are over 50 kids within a mile of the school that also didnt get a place. It's a lottery and exacerbated by the numbers not getting into the grammar.

That's the point of that criterion though.

Grammars as I'm sure you're aware, have much lower PP percentages than their surrounding schools.

Not having to live on such a low income will benefit your son.

This .
Dd2 got a place at a grammar school and her best friend at primary school didn’t and went to the local secondary school
They both achieved very similar GCSE results 8s and 9s. Dd2’s friend joined the 6th form at a grammar school
Both dd 2 and her friend are now at the same excellent university studying the same competitive course and are both on their way to achieving a first class
What I am saying in a roundabout way is not to dwell on this and focus on the school he has a place for

Op if none of your sons school friends got School 2 it is likely you all live too far away. They cant penalise you for listing the Grammar. School "Last Distance Offered" areas can be very tight in highly populated areas.

Its too late now, but you need to look at Entrance criteria before applications to understand the reality of getting a place. Iknow you probably were countibg on the Grammar place... but Grammar school is never a guarantee. Especially at the moment when more pepple are choosing State over Private.

Your best bet now is researchimg all the schools in the area and getting on various waiting lists.

(As for PP places... these exist as the families are less likely to be able affird tutors, music lessons, extra maths etc.)

Sorry@Will2, but your son certainly is not musically gifted and obviously didn't do well enough in the exam to get a place in the first cut. What do you expect them to do, they have limited places and they go to the children who they consider will do best at their school? They are the experts, I'm sure that you're not the only parent to be disappointed, but there is nowhere else you can take this.

No, you're correct for any state school, at least until Christmas; waiting lists have to be held in oversubscription criteria order (and places offered) until December 31st in the year of entry. After that point, the school may choose to carry on with this, or in the case of a grammar school, hold mid-year extra ce exams to fill any places which become available.

Lots of people go to schools where they don’t already have friends. He will be fine

@maudelovesharold in the case of OP, his child has a score which is above the qualifying score - so I think he would “hold” that score on any ongoing waiting list rather than sit a later test. I may be out of date though.

Are you in Zone 1 for the 2nd appeal @Will2 ? We are and I'm just planning an appeal. I do think they have a more flexibility than the grammar so hopefully we will win. I suspect we got the school you put as 3rd choice - which seems a lovely school but no 6th form and more vocational subjects and definitely not right for my boy. We were only just within the last place offered in terms of distance. I suspect you may live fairly near us (or the same side of town at least) and it makes it very easy to fall between the cracks as the two closest schools don't go on distance but the schools that do go on distance can be a bit too far away.

The panel suggested we go to the grammar in the next town... until I pointed out the cost of bus passes and that we wouldn't get transport funded as you're expected to choose a more local school. You can't win! I'm looking forward to and dreading reading the letter to see where I went wrong.

I am just getting myself fired up to work as hard so I can to win appeal number 2...good luck. 💐

Our local Grammar school runs what they call an ‘In year’ entry procedure, at any point before year 11. As well as boys who have never taken the 11+, this late entry procedure may be used to re-assess boys who, under a previous selection procedure (11+ or Late Entry), have been found not to be of grammar school ability. There are not a huge number of places, but if a child passes at that stage, then they are placed on a waiting list, if there isn’t an available place immediately.

You could see how things go with your ds’s allocated school in yr 7, as to how well he settles in and whether you consider the school is meeting his needs, and maybe he could take the late entry exam, if you still think the Grammar school would be a better fit? I imagine there will be information in the online prospectus as to whether, and how, late entry admissions are run at the school in question, and what the format is. Just to say, though, I would think most candidates will undertake tutoring before the exam, as is the case with the 11+.

At the school in question, it’s more that the lowest admitted score is very high this year vs many prior years. 220 is the minimum standard so 242 is very high above that, indicating a really competitive year.

Honestly, if he's scored fairly well below the cut-off then it may well be that he'd struggle at a grammar anyway. The PP point you made is irrelevant as it doesn't apply to your son.

Our local grammar system is different in that a pass is 121 and over. I knew of a child who got 120.5 and still missed out on appeal as they had not achieved certain grades in their previous sat tests. did your son do well on his last sat tests?
I think you would be surprised how many other kids got grades between your son's at 235 and the pass at 242 - and then again the number that got more than 242. 7 points under is not a near miss. That said I think all parents with hopes for kids to enter a particular school can be sympathetic to you and your son's disappointment. It so much pressure for the kids and its not a fair system.

Just as an aside, had you applied for accommodations for the entrance exam for him? If he has a medical condition that is likely to impact on performance during things like external exams, then it may be the case that he would benefit from accommodations - maybe a rest break during the exam, so he can calm down / re-focus, or even extra time, if his processing speed may be affected.

Obviously this is no help to you now, but may seriously be worth considering when they are at secondary school, and also for external exams? It would be worth speaking to the SENCo about it.

How far away from your house is the allocated school, and how far away from your house is the grammar school that you appealed?

A shorter journey, and the ability to have friends close by can make a massive difference.

The option is always there to apply there for sixth form - if you / he are really keen on that. You sound like very engaged parents, so could potentially buy in support in years 9, 10, 11, to supplement the learning at his allocated school, and make sure that he achieves at the highest level possible at 16, which will open up options for him for sixth form.

I also agree with a pp - that it really doesn’t follow that those who achieve highest at 11 in selection tests go on to achieve the highest at 16 / 18… I have known several cases like this (where the highest performer at age 11 didnt do so well at 16 or 18, and where mid-level performers at 11 did really really well at 16 & 18).

I teach at a girls grammar and to be honest it's incredibly rare a place is won at appeal. Any places awarded are in addition to those already offered a place, so imagine if all 30 won their appeal the school would be over subscribed by 30.

Pp scores are often significantly lower due to the lack of opportunity for a child from these backgrounds to be tutored.

I know which school you are talking about as my son goes there. How about the non-oversubscribed grammar school in another town in the same county which is about 30mins away by train where a score of 220 would gain your son a place? I have a few friends with children there and they seem to be thriving.

He will be ok from a friendships POV - a blank canvas is a great thing .
DS went to a new school in year 8 knowing no one , he had been bullied at the old school. He is now a popular boy with a wide friendship group . Hopefully you can build him up over the summer .

All schools are supposed to cope with dc with a medical need. Not just grammars. ECHP won’t necessarily name a grammar either if dc hasn’t qualified.

We lost our appeal on Friday too. We had specific medical need with all the paperwork from professionals and my DD had met the qualifying score (it then goes on distance only which is why we didn't originally get a place).
We are pretty upset and I really do sympathise with you. I honestly can't imagine how she will cope at any other school but she has her second choice which starts transition next week. If it doesn't work our we will be applying for an EHCP which I presume you could for your son if the medical need meets the criteria?

It's almost as if it goes against parents when putting this school down as second choice.

It doesn’t, and cannot.

The algorithm sorts all candidates for all the places they list by the admissions criteria, whatever they are.

If Katy is the younger sister of Jodie, and Jodie goes to Blue School which has a sibling preference, but Katy smashes the 11+ test for Red School, it is possible that Katy is near the top of the algorithm’s list for both Blue and Red.

Then, and only then, is Katy’s preference taken into account. If she put Red School first preference, she is given it, and everyone in the Blue School list moves up one place. And vice versa if she put Blue School first.

Katy also vanishes off the list for third preference, Yellow School, where perhaps she was in place 100 as that is a distance criteria school. Nonetheless, everyone at 101 and below moves up a spot when Katy gets her first preference.

However, some children don’t come high enough up the lists for any of their preferences and hence are given a place at the nearest school with a space.

No that would not be the case, preference is not taken into account on assessing eligibility for a place, all applicants are ranked for each school according to its Admissions criteria and the highest preference for which a pupil qualifies is offered. If none are qualified for it is usually the nearest with a space available that is offered. Your lack of understanding of the process suggests that neither 2 nor 3 were realistic options for your dc as a back up plan. Have you checked the Admissions criteria for those schools and the offer letter to see why you missed out?