Unsuccessful grammar school appeal

@2dogsandabudgieThat view depends on whether it’s a grammar county and what the other schools are like. In some areas, 30% of the brightest dc are missing! Of course there’s a
point to them but of course some people don’t like them.

@2dogsandabudgie when do you think the 11+ did manage to reward natural aptitude rather than, say, growing up in a house with books rather than one without? When did it change?

As had been said… It’s an attempt to balance out the disadvantages that those on PP have in life vs those who don’t. Same as LAC are first on the list in almost every, if not every, state school criteria. It’s not a perfect measure but it’s objective and probably the best that can be done.

And again - if those 20 school places had been in gen pop and not reserved for PP, chances are that the cut off score would have been 239 or so. It’s a high cut off year and that’s a real shame for you and DS, but it isn’t unfair.

But that used to be the whole point of the 11+. It was based on natural aptitude so was more of a level playing field.

Now virtually everyone has their child tutored which makes a complete mockery of it. I can't see the point of grammar schools anymore.

will2 - are you in Lincolnshire by any chance - if so I happen to know that the boys grammar school in Sleaford has spaces as they lowered their pass mark this year.

@SheilaFentiman, it is actually a plan for some children that don’t pass here. These boys made it clear in year 7, that they were leaving in year 9 and had only started at the independent school because they had failed the 11+. My DGD told me this.

The thing is all these state boarding schools are also close to £20000 a year now (unless you get a forces contribution/in care and the state pays). So hardly cheap. It is proper private school territory cost wise and those with a high percentage of boarding pupils, is presumably relatively socially exclusive. Just like a lot of the most sought after comprehensives with tiny catchments and big house prices. And now most grammar schools are also extremely competitive and require prep. It is what it is. I think plenty of people are simply concluding it is easier to just go to a local school and pay a few GCSE tutors if a bit of the teaching is sporadic from year 10. Rather than get too worked up about it all anymore.

I know of kids who transfer in y9

@SheilaFentiman, 3 boys went from my DGDs school.

We live in a built up grammar schools area. This could possibly affect availability.

Ah, I see Cranbrook has 8 day places for 13+ vs 90 for 11+

Learnt something new today!

Interesting, thanks.

i note you say if places are available - are they often available? I would expect most state grammars to be oversubscribed

1. The thread is about a state grammar and I was responding to a PP who asked if this school had an 13+ entry
2. I didn’t say no private schools had a 13+ entry, I said it was becoming less common

@SheilaFentiman, the school I referred
to is Cranbrook Grammar, which does offer the 13+ if places are available.

Apologies was not aware this was not more widely available.

@SheilaFentimanBoarding schools for boys have entry at 13 and plenty of Co-ed too. They also have day pupils, eg Stowe and lots of others. Dc often go to a prep for 2 years and then go to a private school. That’s not unusual.

OP now is asking the time to become completely positive about the school your child will be attending. What are positives for it? I’m sure you have been trying to be positive with your son but if you are actually positive he will likely pick up on it. If you did not list it you may not have looked at it very carefully.

“11+ shouldn't require prep.“

That is a moral judgment. The reality is it requires at least familiarisation and in many areas, it requires learning the full Year 6 Maths curriculum in advance.

My DS2 refused to do prep before the summer holidays before the exams. I knew he might not get in, despite being very intelligent. I certainly was not going to blame the system and everyone else I could think of, if he did not get in. He got lucky somehow, but it was certainly not down to effort compared to most of his cohort! My DS2 did the bare minimum, that was a calculated risk.

When it comes to academics, including later on, effort and sweat is as important as innate ability. If you do not put in the effort somewhat (and I mean basic familiarisation is required) then an equally smart kid who did is going to get the place over you. That is just common sense.

Pass mark is 220.

It shouldn’t but I don’t know anyone who didn’t prep.

@MNLurker1345 no it doesn’t. I’m not sure any state grammar specifically runs the 13+

Private schools do so less and less, and used to do so because prep schools ran to yr 9 so it was worth having an entry point where a couple more classes were added at 13.

11+ shouldn't require prep.

@maudelovesharold it is different.

No one sitting the test without a score of 220 will get in - that’s consistent across years and you could say that’s the pass mark, I guess. It’s not scaled so that only the top x% or 200 kids get 220 or more.

So everyone above 220 is “pre-qualified” for a place. They then just run down the ranking order (after LAC and PP) until they run out of places. This year, the last place given out was at 242.

Often in past years everyone with, say, 224 or over would get in. It’s been creeping up, i think, to 230-odd but 242 is high.

Hi @Will2, does the school offer the 13+ exam?

My DGD failed the 11+ by a point or two. We
didn’t appeal but we are fortunate in that we could send her to independent school.

We also had to face the truth that grammar school would have been way out of her depth. They are highly academic here, we live in Kent. I have heard of many children that struggle in grammar and one or two a year transfer to my DGDs school as I am sure some transfer to state schools.

Children in her year, mainly boys funnily enough, that hadn’t passed the 11+ took the 13+ and passed (with much tutoring I guess). Off to grammar school in year 9. That had been their parent’s intention.

Check it out.

The pass mark here is 321, with no lower than 100 on each section. OP, at our local grammar schools you can apply every academic year and take school based tests.

@MarchingFrogs and @SheilaFentiman But the op’s dc scored 235, when apparently the pass mark this year was 242. At the GS my 3 went to, the pass mark was different every year, and you only went on the waiting list, if you passed the exam that year, not based on previous pass marks! And regardless of pp and other over-subscription criteria, you still had to reach the pass mark (or be close and have extenuating circumstances so as to succeed at appeal) to be offered a place/be put on the waiting list.

Unless the system is completely different at this school, (entirely possible!) I can’t see how the op’s ds would be put on a waiting list when he was deemed not to have passed this year. My advice would be to double check with the school!