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Appeal stage 1 hearing

91 replies

ForLemonNewt · 18/04/2026 08:47

I'm currently in the very stressful process of appealing a secondary school place for my child and have now received my hearing date and schools case. I have found the information here incredibly helpful and understand there are a number of very knowledgeable posters.
I would be grateful of any guidance in relation to the stage 1 part of my appeal which is being held as a group hearing and especially suitable questions I could ask regarding the schools case to try and support that they could admit additional children as the schools case seems very strong. Thank you.

The school has a PAN of 145 but states it is exceeding the admission number this year due to demand, offering 180 places for Year 7. This equates to 30 per class. The school states they do not have the staffing, teaching space or resources to further increase place.

Class sizes of more than 30 are a challenge for us in terms of timetabling due to the number of very small classrooms we have in some parts of the school.

It will not be possible for us to teach groups of over 30. In the smaller classrooms currently there is no room for additional furniture. There are a number of general teaching rooms and science labs with floor space of less than 49m, the smallest being 39.79m.

The school is not equipped to cope with any more than 180 children in Year 7, and to admit any more would be detrimental to the other pupils and the staff.

I would be very grateful of any suggestions of appropriate questions I could ask in relation to the schools case at stage 1. Thank you

OP posts:
KilkennyCats · 26/04/2026 16:50

OutofIdeas86 · 18/04/2026 19:32

We are really pleased, he's been a huge help. He has chaired over 1000 appeals. he knows his stuff.

Based on your “advice” to op, he hasn’t a bloody clue.

lanthanum · 26/04/2026 16:42

"Our consultant raised a good point about finding gout average absence rate - its usually around 5%. So if Y7 has capacity for 180 kids, 9 will be off each day."

How does the consultant think this will help? Would you happy for your child to be in a different class each day depending on which one has someone off sick?
An average of nine missing each day is unlikely to mean a space in the same class every day; numbers will fluctuate, and be higher at some times of year than others.

The only circumstance in which I can see this making any difference is if the school is nominally taking a number of traveller children who it is expected will never actually turn up (certainly used to be the case for one school I know).

ForLemonNewt · 26/04/2026 09:34

prh47bridge · 26/04/2026 09:16

Raise this in your individual hearing. The stage 1 hearing is about whether the school has complied with the law and followed its published admission arrangements, and how difficult it will be for the school to cope with additional pupils. The fact they haven't answered your questions isn't relevant to that and doesn't affect the other appellants, so your individual stage 2 hearing is the right place to raise it. If it were me, I would raise it right at the start of presenting my case in stage 2.

Thank you, I will do this.

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 26/04/2026 09:16

ForLemonNewt · 26/04/2026 08:43

Sorry, just to confirm, should I raise this at stage 1 group hearing when it is my opportunity to ask questions of the PO or in my individual hearing? Thank you

Raise this in your individual hearing. The stage 1 hearing is about whether the school has complied with the law and followed its published admission arrangements, and how difficult it will be for the school to cope with additional pupils. The fact they haven't answered your questions isn't relevant to that and doesn't affect the other appellants, so your individual stage 2 hearing is the right place to raise it. If it were me, I would raise it right at the start of presenting my case in stage 2.

ForLemonNewt · 26/04/2026 08:43

prh47bridge · 26/04/2026 08:35

Yes. Tell the panel that you have been hampered in your preparations for the hearing by the school failing to answer your questions as required by the Appeals Code. That won't win your appeal for you, but it should mean the panel will be more inclined to give you the benefit of any doubt.

Sorry, just to confirm, should I raise this at stage 1 group hearing when it is my opportunity to ask questions of the PO or in my individual hearing? Thank you

OP posts:
ForLemonNewt · 26/04/2026 08:39

prh47bridge · 26/04/2026 08:35

Yes. Tell the panel that you have been hampered in your preparations for the hearing by the school failing to answer your questions as required by the Appeals Code. That won't win your appeal for you, but it should mean the panel will be more inclined to give you the benefit of any doubt.

Thank you

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 26/04/2026 08:35

ForLemonNewt · 26/04/2026 08:06

I have requested the schools net capacity assessment as suggested. This was a week ago (and would have been received the next working day after schools case papers were received) but have not received a response. I will send a further email to follow up. If I don't get a response before the appeal, would you suggest this is something I bring up at the stage 1 hearing? Thank you for any further advice on this.

Yes. Tell the panel that you have been hampered in your preparations for the hearing by the school failing to answer your questions as required by the Appeals Code. That won't win your appeal for you, but it should mean the panel will be more inclined to give you the benefit of any doubt.

ForLemonNewt · 26/04/2026 08:06

I have requested the schools net capacity assessment as suggested. This was a week ago (and would have been received the next working day after schools case papers were received) but have not received a response. I will send a further email to follow up. If I don't get a response before the appeal, would you suggest this is something I bring up at the stage 1 hearing? Thank you for any further advice on this.

OP posts:
DillyDallyingAllDay · 19/04/2026 11:42

As a parent I think it’s also useful to know how many children the school has had in the previous say, 5 years, in the year groups at a specific point (October census day or summer etc) . This information is rarely presented by the school and panels don’t think so ask because it’s something that would take some time to gather. Worth asking the schools or doing an FOI to find out. It’s helpful to show what sort of numbers the school has previously managed with.

LadyLapsang · 19/04/2026 11:39

In addition to reviewing the NCA report, check the capacity in the Funding Agreement. You could also ask if the school has offered over PAN for 26-27 at the request of the local authority, or has done so of its own volition (probably won’t help your case much as if the LA is ambivalent it may mean surpluses in nearby schools while the school you are targeting has gone over PAN).

Have you also checked the admissions policy and PAN for the next AY (27-28) in case the PAN has been permanently increased. You could ask for a copy of their most recent Census return, but they might not be willing to share. You can also look at the number sitting GCSEs in 2025, by looking at the schools performance tables, which could indicate if the school previously had a larger PAN.

Worth looking at anything the LA has published on school place planning, as that could indicate plans for permanent expansions or ways to manage down surplus places.

On what grounds are you appealing?

Lougle · 19/04/2026 10:32

There is nationally published information here https://content.explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/api/releases/960750dd-6ed7-4e32-a9df-3cc9132bb1a4/files?fromPage=ReleaseDownloads

That will tell you how many places the school had capacity for and the number of pupils on roll. It won't give you accurate data for this point in time though.

https://content.explore-education-statistics.service.gov.uk/api/releases/960750dd-6ed7-4e32-a9df-3cc9132bb1a4/files?fromPage=ReleaseDownloads

ForLemonNewt · 19/04/2026 08:36

prh47bridge · 19/04/2026 08:34

You ask the school. They are required to answer any reasonable questions you ask to help you prepare for your appeal.

Thank you

OP posts:
prh47bridge · 19/04/2026 08:34

Mummyspider27 · 19/04/2026 08:28

Where do we find this magical document?!?!

You ask the school. They are required to answer any reasonable questions you ask to help you prepare for your appeal.

Mummyspider27 · 19/04/2026 08:28

Lougle · 19/04/2026 07:36

I'm sorry, it is hard. The other thing you have to take into account is that we imagine nice rectangular classrooms that have lots of space but the reality is that some classrooms are triangular, or L-shaped. They may have counters along one side which reduces the useful space, then doors and radiators, etc. Then there may be a whiteboard or Promethean Screen at one end which means that anyone sitting in the bottom end of the 'L' can't see the board.... This all reduces the useful capacity of a classroom.

The Net Capacity document takes all of this into account to give the capacity for each classroom and the school as a whole.

Where do we find this magical document?!?!

ForLemonNewt · 19/04/2026 08:26

The Net Capacity document takes all of this into account to give the capacity for each classroom and the school as a whole.

Sorry, I can see you've already covered this bit. Thanks

OP posts:
ForLemonNewt · 19/04/2026 08:24

Lougle · 19/04/2026 07:36

I'm sorry, it is hard. The other thing you have to take into account is that we imagine nice rectangular classrooms that have lots of space but the reality is that some classrooms are triangular, or L-shaped. They may have counters along one side which reduces the useful space, then doors and radiators, etc. Then there may be a whiteboard or Promethean Screen at one end which means that anyone sitting in the bottom end of the 'L' can't see the board.... This all reduces the useful capacity of a classroom.

The Net Capacity document takes all of this into account to give the capacity for each classroom and the school as a whole.

Thank you Lougle, this is really helpful to know even though it feels like a bigger hill to climb now. Please could I ask would I request the Net Capacity document from the school directly or from the LA beforehand? I have been unable to find online. Would this include the sizes of all classrooms which would be useful as suggested by pp. Would the document also include the overall school capacity number? Thank you

OP posts:
Lougle · 19/04/2026 07:36

I'm sorry, it is hard. The other thing you have to take into account is that we imagine nice rectangular classrooms that have lots of space but the reality is that some classrooms are triangular, or L-shaped. They may have counters along one side which reduces the useful space, then doors and radiators, etc. Then there may be a whiteboard or Promethean Screen at one end which means that anyone sitting in the bottom end of the 'L' can't see the board.... This all reduces the useful capacity of a classroom.

The Net Capacity document takes all of this into account to give the capacity for each classroom and the school as a whole.

Mummyspider27 · 19/04/2026 07:28

Lougle · 18/04/2026 22:29

I think you're going to have a bit of a battle if they've got an extra 30 children in last year's group.

Have you seen the Net Capacity document? It will tell you the number on roll which will give an idea of how full they are. Regardless, though, that won't help if they are saying that some of their classrooms are too small to accommodate extra pupils.

I see what you are saying, I didn’t think of it that way. That’s a bit rubbish 😔 but glad it was pointed out now. They had expansion works a few years ago which enabled them to take additional pupils at every intake (the 30 last year was in addition to that, apparently something the LA insisted they did). These additional yearly intake hasn’t filtered through every year yet as only started a couple of years ago. I know from the LA stats there are spaces in other year groups so the school as a whole is not full. But totally see your point that taking another class of 30 is actually different to one more child. Glad this has been explained now, before my appeal, but can’t lie, has knocked me back a bit as felt it was a good counter argument. This whole process is so hard 😢 x

Lougle · 18/04/2026 23:42

ItTook9Years · 18/04/2026 23:25

If it’s the top hit on google, he has not chaired 1000 appeals. He was a clerk and apparently legal advisor to schools.

(Testimonials are very patchy too.)

I think we're missing a trick here. "You've got no chance of winning but you could ask this question and I will sit in the room while you do. That will be £1200 please!!

MarchingFrogs · 18/04/2026 23:33

ItTook9Years · 18/04/2026 23:11

X1000, don’t you know? Could be the same cowboy on all of them!

To be fair, on several panels I've been on, one of the panel members will get in first with this as a 'Devil's Advocate' thing, so we don't actually know whether a parent would have asked (thus possibly depriving one of the gotcha! moment they were assured would make someone's fees all worth it, it would seem. Truly, every day is a schoolday, as rhe saying goes).

ItTook9Years · 18/04/2026 23:25

OutofIdeas86 · 18/04/2026 19:32

We are really pleased, he's been a huge help. He has chaired over 1000 appeals. he knows his stuff.

If it’s the top hit on google, he has not chaired 1000 appeals. He was a clerk and apparently legal advisor to schools.

(Testimonials are very patchy too.)

ItTook9Years · 18/04/2026 23:11

MarchingFrogs · 18/04/2026 20:24

He knows his stuff - and yet is 'helping' you by suggesting that a way to go is pointing out that if attendance is x%, that means that on average, y pupils will be out of class on any given day, so that means it's perfectly fine to add an extra one (his client's DC, of course).

Yes, well, um...

If nothing else, pupil absence actually creates work for the school - the safeguarding aspect of making sure that pupils who haven't turned up and whose parent hasn't informed the school first thing re the reason for the absence is actually just safely tucked up on the sofa with a box of tissues / investigating frequent or long term absences and working with parents to ensure that the pupil's education isn't disrupted any more than necessary/ involving outside agencies if needs be etc. Not to mention the teaching staff having to cope with pupils with gaps in their learning.

Schools are under pressure to keep pupil absence to an absolute minimum; they can't just heave a sigh of relief that today there are only 9 out of 10 of the little blighters on the premises making the place look untidy.

But yes, of course it means that the school has a weak case for not going over PAN - on the days when everyone inconveniently turns up, the pupils can just hot desk, obviously.

Bit of an eye-opener, this; when a parent asks the presenting officer the 'absence' question, I've always assumed that they've thought of it off their own bat (it doesn't sound an unreasonable question, after all - until you've heard the full response a few times, which panel members will have done). It has never occurred to me that the suggestion that they ask has come from someone who has taken their money for the privilege...

X1000, don’t you know? Could be the same cowboy on all of them!

prh47bridge · 18/04/2026 23:10

OutofIdeas86 · 18/04/2026 19:30

The (independant) clerk should reach out to you to give you times of the stage 1, and then we were ask if we had a preference on timing across the days the stage 2 were being held on, for example - Monday from 1pm, all day tuesday, all day wednesday etc.

I asked the clerk directly and he told me total number of appeals being heard.

Strangely the same clerk is chairing all 3 of our appeals! Presuming the panel with be different for each one

The clerk does not chair the appeals. Their role in the hearing is to keep a record of proceedings and provide advice on procedure and admissions law. The hearing will be chaired by one of the panel.

And I'm afraid I agree with others about your consultant. Every time you've mentioned advice he has given you, it has been wrong. For someone who you say claims to have chaired over 1,000 appeal panels, he knows surprisingly little about how appeals actually work. An argument around absence levels will fail. The appeal panel will not be interested.

Lougle · 18/04/2026 22:29

I think you're going to have a bit of a battle if they've got an extra 30 children in last year's group.

Have you seen the Net Capacity document? It will tell you the number on roll which will give an idea of how full they are. Regardless, though, that won't help if they are saying that some of their classrooms are too small to accommodate extra pupils.

Lougle · 18/04/2026 22:16

Anything that centres on 'The school isn't as full as they say it is' or 'Even if the school is a bit full, they can squeeze some more in' will be a stage 1 argument. It's the part that determines prejudice. If there is no prejudice and the number of appellants is fewer than the number that would create prejudice, then the appellants win. No stage 2. If there is no prejudice and the number of appellants is greater than the number that would create prejudice --> stage 2.

Stage 2 is for anything that centres on 'Yeah, ok, so they're quite full, but even if they are, they should squeeze my child in because it's so very important that they attend this school.'