Anti-misogyny classes - have schools lost trust in boys, what went wrong

Teachers, usually PE teachers, should absolutely not be paid more for offering extra curricular activities. It is the trade off for having far lower marking load than say, an English teacher. It’s a nice thought, but realistically, we’re not short of PE teachers, we’re short of STEM teachers.

If too much time being taught by women is so bad for boys why aren't more men stepping in to become teachers?

Low pay
Low respect (from society / parents / peers)
Low status

Some of the greatest gains that feminism has made has been in the teaching profession - but that has been at a cost to men choosing it as profession.

My DH is a teacher, secondary level, and bloody good at it. He has several male colleagues - and they are as varied as any group of people. There's no one 'type'. They got into teaching because they love their subjects, because they genuinely enjoy working with young people and because teaching is a great career if you want to travel / work abroad. But our school (not in the UK) does not generally have the above challenges; they are paid well, the parents / students are, by and large, very respectful and there's a minimum of behaviour issues. I'm not sure where status comes into it for them - I don't think any of them are particularly status-driven, but I think they are all quite proud of being teachers (even if it's in a 'someone's got to do it, it might as well be me' kind of way). None of them are 'macho'. There is definitely a bit of huddling together in a very female-heavy sector.

So in the UK what could be done? Well a complete overhaul of the education sector might help. Higher salaries = higher status, maybe. Huge increase in sports / extra-curriculars and extra pay for teachers who can offer these. Smaller classes, which lets teachers really teach in interesting and challenging ways (DH has a maximum class size of 18 - this means that even the most grumpy 15yr old boy gets some personal attention).

Richard Reeves proposed that boys should start school a year later than girls - gives them a chance to catch up on their organisational development, rather than stumbling along in the wake of the girls, who develop these skills much earlier.

None of this is going to happen in the UK, and tbh it can only succeed if it's demonstrated at home. When Celia Lashlie realised that she was going to be a single parent to a boy, she went out of her way to find other good male role models, decent hard-working, responsible men - to spend time with her son. Sports coaches, grandads / uncles, family friends, fathers of her sons friends, teachers, etc.

I’m not sure boys get worse treatment than girls in schools. Male violence is seen on a scale that includes horseplay, whereas even the lowest level of female violence is often treated as very out of the ordinary.

Thing is when boys were outperforming girls in schools (which wasn't that long ago in the big scheme of things) misogyny was still rife in adulthood. So this isn't new just because girls have caught up and in many cases overtaken academically.

Yes, if anything society validates men again and again, and invalidates women. Hence a lot of people's first thought (including women's) when a woman makes a complaint against a man is 'What has she got against this guy?' not 'That sounds awful'

That said, I think it is hard for boys who have not yet got to experience any of the benefits of patriarchy (the being listened to, taken seriously, believed, being seen as a 'leader', having your credentials accepted etc) while being treated in schools as underachievers, trouble etc compared to the girls. This is why they are so vulnerable to the manosphere - in their context, they probably do perceive girls as being treated better by authority. And there is something to rebalance there, though I'm not sure how. It shouldn't be by treating girls worse, or by validating harmful behaviours from boys and expecting girls to put up with it 'because boys are like that and you have to accept it'

I don’t disagree with you totally, Renato. The message will be heard louder, sadly, if it comes from men and male students. A pp spoke about her “alpha” male son cutting off a friend who assaulted a girl. I’ve spoken about how the sportiest kid in the year has a massive impact on that year group and how the PE department deal with behaviour issues vs jock culture is massively important. But you’re blaming bad male behaviour on the reaction to it, and that’s just bullshit. Some methods of dealing with misogyny may be better than others, but the behaviour is not caused by the attempts to deal with it.

Did you not know what's being covered before you started this thread?

My daughter plays (girls) football and the team all have to get reminded from time to time not to be aggressive in play or mouth off to the ref. My daughter doesn't do that and probably wouldn't but it doesn't mean she doesn't need told or the team are anti football or anti girl or something
... It feels like this is the same?

c. 70,000 rapes are reported every year in the UK. And that's just those reported. 99% of those cases reported do not lead to conviction.

There has been a 37% increase in VAWG between 2018 and 2022.

It's estimated 1 in 4 British women have experienced rape or sexual assault after the age of 16.

Yeah. Living in the UK is peachy as a woman. 🙄

As a mum of boys I’m genuinely trying to understand what you are saying here and failing. What do you mean by ‘boy energy’ and ‘validate their feelings’?

When you say ‘we should be focusing on claiming back safe spaces for boys, and validation for boys’ what do you mean? What spaces are unsafe for boys? What validation do they need?

As a man, I agree with your sister. If it is deserted, particularly if it is dark, I will cross the street rather than walk behind a woman if that is an option. No, it isn't all men, but it is understandable that a lone woman may feel threatened if she is being followed by a man.

I don't understand the "treat them all like this" comment. Saying I should cross the street in this situation does not mean I am a threat to women. It says that some women may think I am a threat - understandably considering the level of male violence against women and the rate at which it is increasing.

It's the same argument white Americans use to try and cancel the teaching of racism in America. It's dangerous. 'This subject has the potential to make my child feel uncomfortable so I demand you don't teach it'

I’m so sorry that reply was for the poster above you.

Same... Violence prevention and respect is all behaviour that supports an anti-misogynistic society. I don't think anything weird and damaging is being covered by the sound of it

Op, I think you are a man. Because no, the UK is in no way “famous” for being non judgemental towards women. How can you possibly think it is?

I agree with your sister. Rather than you thinking this teaches your son he is a threat, why not explain that it doesn’t harm him to cross the road and that it might make her feel safer and that this is what men who want to protect women should do? There is no negative in that. The facts are, women are raped and murdered by men.

But it IS misogyny. Why aren’t we allowed to name it, exactly? It’s not naming misogyny that causes misogyny. You sound like a violent man - I’m angry because YOU MADE ME ANGRY!

Look at OPs recent comments….
there’s a low bar across the world and basically we’re lucky we’ve got is a good as we have….. famous for how lucky we’ve got it apparently…..
I don’t even have the words.

Then it's not helpful to sidestep the term. It is helpful to challenge it head on and challenge the misinformation.

Recognising BS online is a key skill for all kids (and adults). This is helpful in that too.

But surely we can all agree that misogyny is indeed bad? So being anti it is okay? I am still failing to see the problem here.

Call a spade a spade! Why would we pretend this shit isn't real?? It is real. It exists. My son learns about racism in school - they don't call it 'meanness' they call it racism and kids, even white kids, are expected to be robust enough to handle it! Fuck all this cancel culture nonsense. Teach boys what misogyny is and call it by it's name

I’m a big supporter of single sex schools. Especially now sadly. We bought a house in the catchment area of an excellent girls state school. Best decision we ever made. Our two girls had none of this until dd2 went to mixed 6th form.

I think girls who’ve been in a single sex environment are the ones who are more shocked when they are educated with boys. It was Dd and her friends who went to the local girls private school that challenged the misogynistic boys. The girls from the mixed sex schools were resigned to it which broke my heart.

Are they not calling it that at your child's school? The aim is the same regardless surely unless anyone particularly likes misogyny?