Would parents choose a more practical and outdoor state secondary?

I think you should look very carefully at studio schools. They sound such a good idea on paper, but in practice a lot of them aren't full.

The funding will be crucial. Doing anything out of the norm tends to cost more.

@HelenaWilsonI suspect they don’t exist now but they were absolutely not what the op is talking about. They required dc to take O levels as well as more vocational subjects, eg office skills. This meant some dc would or could progress to university, via A levels, or night school for pre university courses. In my area they have become grammar schools but only the towns with a manufacturing base had them. They were not havens for dc who didn’t want academic subjects.

There’s not much of an incentive to put vocational courses on a par with academic qualifications because no degree requires them. They accept them but that’s not quite the same and schools that offer lots of vocational courses are not going to see the brightest dc on the courses because there’s no advantage in doing them.

I'd be more concerned about bullying than about academic qualifications. To be honest - and I'm hope I'm wrong in your case - the "can't cope with academic qualifications" narrative often seems to go hand in hand with the "can't be expected to behave / be nice to others" narrative.

I also dislike that people think of "academic" and "vocational" as a dichotomy. In my opinion, the attention to detail required to do well academically is also required to achieve high levels of technical skill (witness: music, chess, drawing, woodwork, engineering). I would actually LOVE a school for intelligent* and well-behaved children (which of course includes dyslexic / ADHD, ASD etc.) that gives parity to academic and technical skills and really challenges academic children to develop high-level technical skills alongside a rigorous academic programme. Sadly that does not seem to exist. The level of expectation for vocational qualifications seems to be quite low. It is a shame. For example, I think BTEC qualifications look great. They could be a fantastic framework for open-ended skill development that really stretches the most able. But in practice this does not happen, because BTECs are marketed and taught towards the least able.

• Should a state secondary offer more outdoor learning and practical skills?
Yes.

• Do you think teens benefit from non-exam-based assessment, or is sticking with GCSEs essential?
A core of academic GCSEs is essential: Maths, English language, Double Science, Geography, a FL. More aren't necessary, in my opinion.

• Would you want your child to have access to things like animal care, camping, watersports, creative arts, greenkeeping, or vocational pathways alongside academic subjects?
I would want them to have access to music, woodwork, electronics, programming (arduino etc.), gardening up to a very high level that demands dedicated practice and hard work. I would also want them to have access to outdoor activities that are taught in a way that develops teamwork and social skills (maybe look towards cadet training for ideas, minus the marching). The other stuff can be bonus - it looks like fun.

If you plan on keeping animals though please make sure they are 100% protected from abuse by children (and staff) at all times. Don't start with the assumption that everyone loves animals and treats them well. Unfortunately that is not the case.

• Does this sound like a realistic model for a state school, or something that parents wouldn’t trust or choose?
I think there are parents who would choose your school, yes. Probably parents who want to avoid an academic education (for reasons outlined above). Mind you, I think it is a valid choice, though I would not choose it myself for the same reasons.

we would be better with the German system of three types of schools, including more vocational schools.

We used to have that system, but it was done away with in favour of comprehensive schools. (Even in grammar school areas, I'm not sure that any genuinely technical schools still exist.)

I think it’s a brilliant idea, but it wouldn’t suit my children. As long as there was the option to opt out (ie enough other schools locally that children would have a choice), then I would definitely support it.

Sounds perfect as a summer school and for after school activities.
What happens when an area is oversubscribed and ‘academic’ children are only offered your school? Not really fair on them.
As others have said, asking parents doesn’t really address the question as we can only say what we’d like for our own children not necessarily for a community as a whole. Best to look at similar set ups and see why they have succeeded or failed.

@MeetMeOnTheCorner Yes that's basically what I was saying.

You'll not get many takers for a school that goes to 16 that doesn't equip learners with the qualifications they need to go onto post-16 study elsewhere. Which usually means 5 GCSEs minimum.

I totally agree that taking state money means complying with the restrictions that come with that. Although free schools and academies aren't technically required to follow the NC, they usually do.

My last para maybe wasn't entirely clear - the free school I mentioned started with grand ideas of being different but after Ofsted criticism now follows a much more traditional model.

Yes I wasn't sure about Wales.

Yes - but only for my ADHD child who is simply not academically minded. You'd still need to provide some GCSEs, because they need them in order to get other jobs/progress in the future should they wish. But a curriculum focussed more on the practical side would be better for her.

Fees for Liberty Woodland. Primary, y7-9 and then upper secondary. Lower fee is minibus seat.

Look into this local school: https://www.dorsetstudioschool.co.uk/page/?title=Our+School%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B%26%238203%3B&pid=6

It has links with the local agricultural college (is situated on the premises) and the local well-regarded state secondary. Can't comment on how well it works but it's been going a good few years now.

Who's 'we'?

Nope, not wales- no academies or free schools at all.

How much do they charge though? I’m guessing it’s more than the £6k that state schools get.

@Unexpectedlysinglemum It’s private isn’t it? ISI inspected so it’s not ofsted and not state. Therefore not comparable. Also its last inspection by Ofsted was RI. So clearly not good enough and appears to have changed tack.

https://www.libertywoodlandschool.com/ this school appears to be thriving

@LikeASoulWithoutAMind Not all schools teach to A level so going to 16 is fine. Hoeever taking state money means following state rules. The free schools I know don’t do anything differently because of funding and a need to teach the NC. Clubs are used for extension opportunities. Setting up a school for a hands on education will be phenomenally expensive so who is the sponsor? It’s a bit too alternative to appeal to most parents. Sen ones maybe but there still needs to be a core curriculum.

i assume you’ve researched this-and it could have changed, but it used to be to be that vocational qualifications didn’t really count in the league tables. Our “secondary modern” used to offer lots of BTecs but ended up scaling them down. Which was a disaster for lot of the kids.

I'm assuming this would be a free school? That's essentially an academy by another name fwiw.

Have you familiarised yourself with all the statutory guidance, Ofsted framework etc? You need to be sure you can deliver your vision within that structure.

Would the school offer courses up until 16 or include sixth form provision? If the former then be very careful that your offer will equip learners with the qualifications they need to go onto post-16 study elsewhere. If the latter, then I'd suggest you research post-16 funding very carefully. It's quite complicated and crucially not all courses attract funding. You would also need most learners to be studying for the equivalent of 3 A-levels and bear in mind that vocational qualifications are in a state of flux at the moment. (Look up the introduction of V levels)

There are schools that successfully run school farms alongside a traditional GCSE offering - it might be worth looking at how they manage things.

There was a free school that opened in a town in the next county to me about ten years ago - primary but with a similar ethos. It all sounded amazing. Their first Ofsted inspection went pretty badly however and the model proved hard to scale to the number of children that made it sustainable from a financial perspective. It's a lovely school but follows a much more typical model.

Thanks. I wasn't sure about Wales.
🙂

If this is a SEN school, fine.

If this is supposed to be a mainstream school so think you are going to run into problems - no parent aiming at university for their child is going to want to send them somewhere where they get no GCSEs.

So you are going to be left with children who were never going to pass GCSEs anyway (ie undiagnosed SEN or doesn’t meet threshold for SEN school), plus those with parents who don’t care. Is a very difficult combination of kids to teach. You are essentially skimming off all the “easy to teach” kids and telling them not to apply to your school.

They have a funding agreement, articles and a academy trust handbook with regukations in it. Its not a complete free for all. They must do english maths and science, offer a balanced and broad curriculum, prepare children for the future and take part in national tests and be inspected by ofsted.

I doubt the state money will cover all of what you want to do. There’s a reason state schools don’t do all the practical stuff - money. You would need small groups and you are really offering home ed principles in a school. It’s essentially a special school so will you be funded at that level? Also most dc actually like school and thrive in them. Have you thought about cost of getting dc to the school? Not a very “green” option.

Do you have any experience in the education sector?

Just for information, there are no academy or free schools in Wales. All state funded schools are controlled by local authorities (though voluntary aided and foundation schools to a lesser extent than community and voluntary controlled schools).