Year 8 son, suspected ADHD/ODD, 3-year wait for assessment. He refused his first detention today — advice please.

You need;
EHCP assessment
apply for DLA
Speak to LA autism team
read up everything on PDA
keep him on roll at school.

Where this story ends is probably in a different setting with a totally different approach and a much happier kid.

I have to say, how did you get to where you’re putting his socks on in y6 and yet not pushing like mad for diagnosis?

My daughter is now yr 11. There was a stage where I felt she needed to be protected from the world but also the works needed to be protected from her (and her temper). She got into to trouble at school and I found it really stressful.

i think the thing to do is try and stay calm. The school need to have rules and he needed to learn to navigate them. Even if that is negotiating some leniency. If this is his first brush then he may decide to tough it out but the likelyhood is that he will calm down in time. It’s the tricky thing of standing with him and fixing it with him not for him.

Sending a handhold for you - he needs to come out of his shell and start learning himself . It’s normal for this age.

I think you need to understand how his brain works as I don’t think you do. For a start stop telling him to stop staring into space is not going to be helpful in any shape or form.

The whole staring into space is because he has a busy mind and is a deep thinker. Ask him what he is thinking about - it’s a way of triggering him to be in the present moment. And then link what he is thinking about to what he needs to do.

People with adhd lose track of / get bored if the steps for an admin task are too long. Hence why a check list doesn’t work.

Also think about how you plan things - do you think through in your mind the steps and imagine doing them? Some people with adhd don’t do that naturally. The night before school ask him to speak out the steps in the morning - ask him to imagine himself doing x and then ask him what he thinks his next step would be. He needs to learn a routine to get ready off pat so he’ll do it automatically while his brain is busy doing something else.

and definately pack and get ready night before. Stick coloured stickers on spines of his books - Monday books get blue stickers, Tuesday yellow stickers etc. work out how many blue stickers books he needs so he can remember to look for that amount.

i think of adhd like driving a car, you fully concentrate when you get in it and reverse … but after 10mins driving becomes automatic and people balance that with letting their minds drift a bit to their thoughts. People with ADHD live their lives with drifting into thoughts and their bodies do things automatically. Train their bodies to do the steps they need.

also I would push back on the detention - schools do not punish dyslexic kids for spelling errors but they seem to punish adhd kids for poor exec functions and displaying the traits of their disability. There should be consequences but detention is basically shaming them for having adhd. It will lead to confidence issues and school refusal

you need to proceed with a diagnosis and some professional strategies asap.
meds may or may not be the answer.

my own plus my grandkids all have adhd and respond well to am exercise. although not available to everyone swimming is the best, followed by running and cycling. 20 minutes on the stationary bike/eliptical/treadmill will often help them focus for the am. it's not always easy to fit into the daily routine but can be a massive help as it stimulates dopamine and norepinephrine release.

And why not let him sack off the detention? What’s the harm? They are not going to expel him and it’s not like one incident will entirely scupper his GCSE’s. Hes 12 or 13 and his nervous system is short-circuiting to freeze and fight. Hes cornered. He can’t make rational decisions or learn from this while he’s stuck in this loop. From what you said, despite his words, the person hurting from this situation is him. You mentioned you’re a rule-follower, may I suggest you out-do him in rule breaking? Why don’t you both sack off real life on a school/work day and do something fun and frivolous like rollercoasters or drive round a race track. Get out the mum box, be creative, make him question everything!

Most kids are pretty conventional deep down, imagine if you pre-agreed with his HEAD OF YEAR that you were going to tell the school to “F off” in an in-person meeting*. My kid would be in school 10 mins early every single day to avoid any possible scenario where his unpredictable and shocking mum might be called back in again. You know him best, what would be the last thing he’d expect…

*if you do this, never ever come clean it was a pre-arranged swear. Even when he’s 45. Go to your grave as a legend :)

My Parenting manual is to do the opposite of how I was parented. And I got a late adhd diagnosis, so I have these behaviours too.

i know very little about PDA/ODD, so only coming at it from adhd, but you or your son can certainly hack it to your advantage.

I used to motivate myself with shame. Just said the most horrible things to myself internally. Which reflected what all the adults around me said about me (hey dad!). I can read a tiny flicker of disappointment or frustration from a tiny eyebrow twitch across the room. And that isn’t a problem until it is.

Going to school every day is boring and tedious. And he’s too big now for you to put his socks on (although mine would still let me do this). You’re just going to have to try on stuff to see what works. Urgency, might be one of his levers - a “300 seconds” warning over “five minutes until you need to leave” feels far more urgent to me. Mine loves a hot chocolate/cup of tea on the way to school and putting the travel cup next to his shoes moves him along. Could he make a playlist which is exact and timed to the journey (gamification/chalkenge). Does he know his brain is working against him in the mornings? Does he know there will be a situation where his brain will be perfectly suited to succeed where others would find it intolerable?

is there a peer or mentoring group he could access locally? Can you join him/drop him off at a war hammer group so he can find his tribe? (I will defend this community with my life, they are good people. My nephew was terrified about trying this club but the welcome was seamless ). It is red-flagging to me that he didn’t say anything to his teacher over the science partner. I projected for so long that I could do everything on my own and admitting I needed support was weakness. But that was the very powerful shame taking over. He’s still very young, does he want to change schools? Our local college takes kids at year 10 - I’d have bloody loved that independence even if on paper it would have been logistically more difficult to get to (it wouldn’t have been for me)

I would just pester the assessment service and the teacher liaison and be the squeaky wheel. Help him find a place or network that not school or home. Ps. The rules are just vibes, and you (and he) can totally bend them if you ask nicely.

this situation sounds so hard for both of you, but you will get him through this. Don’t laugh, but I found out so much from TikTok. Yeah, apply common sense but don’t discount crowd sourcing a pile of strategies that have worked for others. Take care

Are you sure it's possible ODD? Sounds more like PDA to me, which is more "can't" than "won't". My daughter has PDA.

There are lots of strategies for dealing with PDA but it isn't easy if they won't cooperate.

I suggest you go private for a diagnosis as this will help.

I got some pictograms for the morning. There's a picture of clothes, breakfast etc and then a velcro spot to put a green tick on when dd has done that. She gets a dopamine hit, and I'm out of the equation. Do you have a time timer? We've also found setting alarms on phones helps as it takes us out of the equation.

Apply for DLA
Use the money to pay for private assessment
And then for private medication as it's unlikely to be accepted by GP

Does he have a support plan with school? Ishe getting any help from the Sen department eg help with executive function difficulties, mental health support, help with managing homework etc?

Are his teachers aware of his needs - you say school is, but has this been passed on to all his teachers?

Have you made school aware of how difficult he is finding getting out of the door in a morning?

I would suggest that you request a meeting with the sendco - either they are aware and the support he has isn't working, or there is no support plan and he needs one!

It’s very crap he’s been waiting so long for his assessment. My son got his assessment before Xmas and he’d been on the waiting list since yr 5. (I chased his position on the list every month since he started y8 as despite liking school the hormones were kicking in and changing behaviour)

Does your son like school? (I mean once he’s there, no one likes getting up to go anywhere!) Has he got lots of friends? Getting on well with lessons? How big is the school?

if that’s all pretty positive, I’d take a supportive stance. Maybe take him out (driving range, maccys etc) and tell him he’s not in trouble and you’re on his side. Ask him if he’s got any ideas or if he wants help. The neutral space and offer of help could be enough to start to solve the problem without losing face/activating the ODD button. I’d be looking to dodge the detention but get him to identify what he can do to rectify the lateness (such as, to get to school on time I need to leave the house at 8.15am. If I am going to be late, I will ring the school office to advise. I aim to prove I am serious by not being late again this term). Basically, give him back some power and get him to be accountable.

He’s clearly upset by the whole situation and probably giving himself a really hard time internally - maybe even thinking something is really wrong with him/he’s stupid/bad person as the situation keeps happening. The more punishment and shouting that goes on, the more that position will be reinforced.

In terms of getting him motivated, it’s down to him. What works for us is that we have no screens or telly in the morning, only radio. There’s breakfast options to eat on the go. We keep school books downstairs and a school schedule pinned in the kitchen and we do a 10min run through of the week on Sunday. If he’s stuck in inertia in the morning, I will embarrassing dance/sing/perform/loud fart to get him smiling. It’s very hard to fight with someone who is twerking and embarrassing themselves.

Set him up for success. He’s gonna have to get himself to places on time for the rest of his life. He’s probably never going to pack his bag the night before but there will be something that works for him

Yes, puberty will be having an effect, but there are non negotiables, especially if he doesn’t want to get into trouble. Are the recommendations from the EP with the secondary school and being used to support him? It might be worth contacting the SENCo to see what strategies are being used and what can be added/ removed to help him in school.

Support is not reliant on a diagnosis, but on evidence of need. However, your son will need to deal with things he doesn’t want to do plenty of times in his life. Being on time is necessary when at work and losing your temper with people because you disagree with sanctions, won’t go well.

If he gets a diagnosis of ADHD and ODD, he may be helped by medication, but there will still be things he won’t want to do I imagine.

Unfortunately, your pragmatic suggestion of sucking up the 30 minute detention hasn’t met with his approval. Having failed to attend that detention, the school may well escalate it to a further sanction and so on. I’m not sure that you can argue that the issues aren’t his fault and due to the lack of medical help, because you haven’t yet seen a medical professional.

I think he needs to know that some things, whether you like them or not, are necessary. Being at school on time is one of them. How can he be helped to get there on time, so he doesn’t get a late detention? What about sanctions at home if he’s late? What will motivate him to be on time?

If he has managed all through primary school and year 7, what has changed to make it so difficult now?