Conflict with Y5 child over 11+ prep

Also teacher here and agree totally. Mist homework is educionally unnecessary at primary level. You sound suffocating.

@CherishL if the 11+ is the main goal for him, then that should be the sole focus, just until he's accepted into your choice of independent.

It appears that he has significantly more obligations over and above this exam.

Could he just be overwhelmed or do you think he's lazy/not trying hard enough?

It may be worth restructuring his study schedule with a heavier leaning towards the 11+?

Have you been to look round any of the schools? My DGS was very laid back but on seeing what was on offer at the local independents versus state he knuckled down and got into the one he most wanted. My advice, start attending open days/ evenings with him.

*whenever they need to do something

Wow - these comments are clearly mostly from people who didn't do 11+ or aren't in areas where the good private schools are mostly quite academically selective (e.g. London).
Having gone through it myself (feeling little choice as we would have had to move otherwise due to falling outside the distance criteria for any of the half-decent state secondary schools in our area), I would surprised if many people manage to get through it without any battles, especially if you're at a state school and none of their friends are in the same boat.
Also, they are too young to take ownership of this - you need to decide how much they should do and agree it with them and remind them whenever they do something. (The hard / stressful part for me was knowing how much was enough myself - and I think this is the biggest benefit of a prep school.)
Small amounts daily much better than making it a big chunk of the weekend at this stage IMO.
Extra curricular stuff also really important IMO as it helps them with self confidence especially when they are finding the prep hard. But the extra curricular things need to be things they like - otherwise it really does all get too much.

Also, our tutor did some online sessions (and face to face) in the summer and mine really struggled with online, just messed about, even if though we were in the room, just couldn’t focus on it. I personally would not recommend online only.

Your son sounds a lot like mine, the spending hours reading a book in the bathroom….etc etc we have just been through the 11+ and did it very much like a poster above, ten minute tests, moving to papers, moving to an hour a day in the summer holidays (which was brutal) all directed by a brilliant and very nurturing tutor. My son did 30 mins online French a week but I allowed him to skip the homework, also have had to let music take a bit of a backseat (although we then had an unexpected music scholarship to prep for) but he still did sport. I think a balance is the thing to aim for. There were days when I questioned our decision but he did end up getting top scores for a state grammar (and easily into a less academic indie with a scholarship).

It seems pretty normal amount of work for a child preparing for insanely competitive 11+ exams in London. We've had this journey with our nearly 11 year old. It was a really tough year. In London and the area you are competing with many, many immigrants who have arrived in the last 10 years and have a normalized culture of tutoring since toddlerhood, so it's very, very tough. At this age you need to sit with him and watch what he is doing. We made a mistake of doing online tutoring with our son, and he just played online games instead of listening to the teacher. Timetable and sticking to it is a must. I'd leave French for a while, he doesn't need it at the moment and he can resume in September. I wish you strength and perseverance. Also, yelling won't help, I'd just offer rewards instead. BTW the only 2 children that we know that got in the 2 most competitive grammars attended a prep school and one had a daily 1h tutoring with a personal tutor.
For those who say it's too much, or "let kids be kids", unfortunately the world is becoming more and more competitive internationally, and it's not the same when we were children and 11+ was relatively easy. AI is killing off jobs, also in my profession, and it's not wrong to do everything in your power to provide the best possible future for your child. It's short-term pain for a big gain.

My son was similar. The motivation was not quite there because his friends (state school) were not particularly studying hard and he wondered why he had to.
I knew he was smart and that was the only reason I pushed/ guided. He is now in a year 7 grammar school and the way he has stepped up amazes his dad and I.
moving to the grammar environment and seeing other kids motivated makes him eager to study as well.
9/10 is young, they need your help and may not be proactive (esp boys because his sister is quite the opposite).

My DD went to a selective London girls day school with a highly competitive intake, she'd been to a state primary and had no tuition and the school was fine for her. But be aware that schools do sometimes ask about tuition at interview and if a child has been tutored this is taken into account when comparing entrance exam results. They don't particularly want children who have had to be tutored to get a mediocre exam result and if two potential pupils have the same result they would take the one who has not had tuition if they don't have the room for both.

This is too much - your ds is too young to be labelled and pushed into this

Unless they are hobbies, I think you are asking too much for his age. My girls dance for 1.5 hours 6 days a week, but they love it and it's good for their health etc as well. Homework is 1 hour, French 15 minutes each morning, piano 30 minutes once a week. I know we do more than most at our school.

Poor kid. You’re treating him like a young adult but he is only a CHILD. Listen to your child - are his needs being met?

I have no involvement with other mums. It’s secondary school, the kids get themselves there and home.
If a tiger mum is hothousing their child, I simply wouldn’t know or care.

You admitted yourself that you're oblivious and wouldn't care :)

It's not relevant to the topic anyway. OP is not asking about specific schools.

Competing with who?? They are all already in.
Do you mean competing with each other? As in their classmates? That’s not been my experience. They champion each other. Some will be good at sports, some at music, some at drama, some at maths, some at English. And they celebrate each other.

I know kids from most of the indi’s in London (as they all socialise and go to the same parties) and I’d say this is true of all the kids I’ve met.

I believe we are in yr area!
Yr son says he sees the behaviour of the local secondary school kids and doesn't like it. What school wd he want to go to? My kid wanted a particular private secondary school, I said to her I wd help bt I cdnt do it for her. If she didn't get into the school she wanted then she wd have to go to a girls school which was her worst nightmare. She persevered, as did I, and she got a scholarship to said school. Phew!

You have to make them want it for themselves. Which school do they want to go to, and why. Ask them. The state primaries in no way prepare them so ur doing the right thing. Just keep it up. GL assessment books, first past the post, galore park past papers. I've got whole stash of them u might want tbh. Message me!

Ps. the behaviour u mention delaying etc cd be adhd / autism. Doesn't become obvious since many kids till much later on

OP your DS sounds similar to my DD, she can also spend four hours reading, drawing or writing and perfecting a story. From the neuropsychological point of view, this is absolutely normal at this age, and people develop in different ways and at different pace - eg this type of neurocognitive profile has a longer attention span and a more steady focus which is an advantage in itself - but of course 11+ tests are set for kids with faster processing speed. You could play speed games to help develop his processing speed, basically anything that relies on speed but ideally not computer games. It can be even carting as it also requires intense focus and fast reaction.
Make it completely unrelated to 11+, just normal fun games, but play them as often as possible. I wouldn't start timing his 11+ tasks just yet as he's not ready atm and would hate it.

Brain functions develop with regular training, just like muscles do :)

My children all took 11+ and passed . 1hour a week with tutor and one practice paper ,alternating VR , NVR and Maths over the weekends. So approx 2.5 hours a week starting in Yr 5 . They all got into super selective schools .
OP I think your son needs more downtime,playing with friends,sports and general fun ! He is only a child.

The depressing thing is that in London a whole bunch of non selective comps make them do this charade as well. Keeping the stress levels low for such young kids is a nightmare even if you’re not buying into the whole private school fandango

Also bear in mind that part f the selection process is interviews and occasionally general observation during the assessment day. So he needs to be able to discuss likes of current affairs, favourites books and hobbies and socialise.

My son went through the 11+ - I was careful not to tutor him or give him much extra work to do, and always tied practice tests to rewards. He cleared it but I had mixed feelings about it at the time, as kids really shouldn't be hot housed that early (or at all). It is counter productive in the long run. Let him discover what he loves and is motivated by naturally.

As others have said, be totally involved yourself in the prep. It's a competitive world and many parents are very involved in prep which can make a huge difference to outcomes.
Prep and music practise should happen every day, regardless of school homework or other commitments. Cut back on TV and encourage reading instead.
Take your child to visit the local state schools and the proposed independent schools so they can make the decision for themselves.

11+ prep years were the worst of my life.

Op implies neither do. They moved him for more teaching time in English. However there are more fun ways of keeping up a language than tuition.