We didn’t get any of our choices - appeals & what next

@Switchy111 if it's any consolation, a lif-time ago, dd got into a holy grail, banded cofe school, top band, church place. The sort of school that had multiple applocations for every single place. We had high hopes.

The reality was a toxic, dysfunctional melting pot on the skids. We removed her at the end of Y8 when the only available independent was the backstop application when she was 10/11. They did a great healing job and if we hadn't been able to pay, the local comp wpuld probably have been pastorally better than the supposedly elite cofe school, trading on its reputation.

Good luck.

It is somewhat more complicated when there's banding, though. There could be 4 places that open up in band 1, but none in band 3. So even quite a lot of movement can be no movement at all.

Maybe I’m missing something, but you’re out of catchment for the school closest to you? Since you said that they took all of the kids in the catchment area, you must not be but you also said it was your closest school (I thought). Did you apply to any school for which you’re in the catchment?

So school 1 is your nearest school but you are not in catchment for it?

Ah, OK - does that mean the banding tests only apply to out of catchment applicants?

It's an aptitude test, it's supposed to measure potential rather than past experience, in the same way that verbal and non-verbal reasoning tests aren't linked to reading any given type of book etc.

The DS may or may not have experience of primary school/local drama groups at the age of 10/11, but aptitude tests are designed, as far as they can be, to allow for children who haven't always had the chance to do drama/an instrument/a language already.

So no practical evidence of any interest or talent in drama, just some random test results?

I don’t fancy your odds at all.

Our son took 11+ and out of 4 schools we applied for he only got his last choice for now. He is on waiting lists for all 3 schools. If you know your son's positions on the waiting lists, I would do the research in order to find out how far the waiting lists go usually .e.g. what it was last year. Those WLs often go very far because some parents change their minds and choose private schools or other schools. I would not lose hope and stay optimistic. There is still a lot of time till September, and you can stay on WLs once he starts Y7 and change then as well (some children will be no-show, some will move homes, etc.) For example, we could see that the WLs for our son's schools move by 20-30 places till Sep, so it's likely he will get his 3., 2. or even 1. choice eventually, cause he got a borderline result for admission for all 3 of them.

Only one person has said what Im going to say, go and visit the allocated school, talk to them, show your son round and be positive, ask them about the RI areas and what are the plans about that.

I think the appeal points are really weak but you never know.

The best indicator of how a child does at school is their parents' commitment and engagement in education, learning and extra curricular activities, rather than the school or their peers per se.

I don't know. Possibly picking up and reading through a previously unseen part?

So who can do the best impression of a tree?

It should be an aptitude test not an achievements to date test.

Oddly I was wondering how on earth do you different between the top 5% and 15% for Drama at age 11? Is it evidence driven like Sue played Matilda in the west end but Bob only played orphan number 6 in Oliver, down to the lower quartiles where the parents just paid for them to be in their local stagecoach show?

sounds very difficult
the “drama aptitude” may be the best grounds for appeal.
don’t mention the fact that you think current school is “unsuitable”.

I also don’t understand why the dad is on electoral roll for an area other than the one he lives in (?). But either way that doesn’t matter. It’s where your son actually lives that does. And in the event you’d said he lived at the grandparent house that would be fraud. Where his dad is/is not on the electoral roll for is irrelevant

So @Switchy111 your closest school selects a certain % on aptitude (for drama?) what is that %? Is it 5%? Your DS was in the top 15%, is that right?

Other than that places are allocated via a fair banding system and you think if he had scored differently there would have been fewer students in his band, giving him a better chance of a place? I am no expert on this but tbh it seems less than fair if the bands are set and then oh look! More students fall into the middle band so they have less chance of a place? Surely the bands are reset (as needed) to give a similar number in each one? So it (eg) there are 200 spaces and 600 took the test and applied, and there are four ability bands so 50 are taken from each band, you would hope that the bands would each have about 150 pupils, rather than the top band having 80 and the second band 200? Otherwise it’s hardly a fair banding test surely? The whole point of those tests as I understand it is not to be selective, but to ensure an even spread of ability?

I don’t think any of us understand the significance of your DH living at his GPs’ house tbh. I took it that it would simply be handy for your DS to go there after school – which would not be a criterion for appeal. But does your DH live there? Is that the address you used?

If pref 1 is your nearest school, does it use distance as a tie breaker? How far outside the distance are you, if so? A school local to me (the one that does the banding test actually) has no catchment and basically uses a lottery (outside a specific area of social deprivation it prioritises) to decide places. Is that what this one does? Is there a nearby school that does go on distance? Sorry so many questions. I agree with others btw, go and see the offered school and talk it up big time.

Just a thought – your DH is a teacher – could your DS apply there and get priority on the WL for that reason? Some schools prioritise DC of staff.

@80smonster yes some schools are low on numbers. That doesn’t have much to do with parents not getting their first pref tho. The schools that are low on numbers are not the ones everyone wants (pretty obviously). The school the Op has been offered is probably one that is low on numbers. I could tell you which schools are low in my area. They are not on people’s preference lists. It’s not hard to understand surely.

The aptitude tests are to ensure fair banding. The school wants to ensure there is a range of ability. It then offers places accordingly.

I don’t think btw that every LA does a subsequent round of allocations. Some have a second pass when all those who didn’t get a place are looked at again in light of any rejections from those perhaps going private of HE. But it’s not a formalised process across England AFAIK.

Doesn’t sound like you added any in your catchment area to your list and instead selected the schools on their performance and what they offer - am I reading that right? You can’t add a school because occasionally DS stays at grandparents!!!

We didnt get any on our list for DS. We had 2 in the catchment and one which was a faith school which was also in catchment. We knew we had little chance with the faith school but it was the only other secondary school in the catchment area so worth a punt

We were given one miles away which was a poorly performing undersubscribed school - and they had bundled every single child in our area into it (new ish housing estate) Complete nightmare but we appealed and got our first choice

But you need to be specific about your appeal reasons and I would seriously consider looking at the schools directly in your local area as you will have more chance.

We targeted the most local one and first on our list - we had specific reasons we could appeal and it related mainly to my son being SEN and also myself being a single parent to other children too and quite literally I couldn’t have got him there and managed getting my other children to school too. My school run would have been 90 minutes either side of the day with children at schools in 2 towns. There wasn’t a bus route, no school bus, or any safe way for him to cycle either.

I would contact the school and ask where he is - they should tell you and you can call them or LA regularly to check for movement.

Lots of people offered places will be holding private school places or it will have been their 2nd or 3rd choice so the lists move a heck of a lot between now and Sept. My son joined one of his schools 2 weeks late because of a no show. You can also ask what kind of movement they tend to see between now and September.

I’d take their advice given he was in top 15% in the entrance tests, they may be keen to support you and offer some reassurance?

I think @80smonster just wants a moan about Starmer/Labour and should start a thread on that then, as it's boring and irrelevant to go on about on here.

OP, given that it doesn't sound like a glitch on the church school application, your best bet might be a waiting list place at that school when they have your documents and can put you in the right category. Definitely get on lots of lists when they open at the end of March. The drama appeal could have a shot too, if you're lucky. But definitely accept the offered place and investigate all back-ups.

Plenty of undersubscribed good schools near me, you must be in an unfortunate area

I agree with Lougle.

Nothing mentioned so far sounds like a certain win at appeal, but (as ever) much depends on how strong the schools’ cases for not admitting will be.

For the banding test: it’s often the case that the last distance offered varies from band to band, so it is possible that a child who missed out on distance in one band would have got a place in another band, but the appeal panel has to work with the banding test results before it. It can’t (or at least shouldn’t) substitute a test result of its own.

The aptitude for drama and the school’s performing arts specialism is a stronger point.

I don’t understand the argument about the child’s father being a carer and the child sometimes staying with the father and grandfather at an address in catchment. Is it that the child kind-of lives in catchment? That argument won’t fly unless there is clear evidence that the child spends more nights at that address than the address given on the application form, is registered there for child benefit etc.

For the faith school: unless there’s evidence of (say) a glitch in uploading documents, the appeal panel is unlikely to find the school or admission authority to be at fault. The panel is likely to take the view that wanting the child to attend a faith school is about the preference of the parents, rather than the needs of the child. I have never heard of an appeal being won on these grounds, except on MN.

Assemble as much evidence as you can, and do your best, but waiting lists may be your best hope here.

Ah, so what Labour meant was ‘we have plenty of space for your children at failing schools’ - thanks for clarifying. Given their strategy of closing independent schools doing perfectly well, straining the ones that remain and making good state and grammar places vastly more competitive than before the addition of VAT - means the policy has been delivered as planned. Bravo to Starmer.

First, you are not appealing (yet). There will be a second (possibly 3rd) round of allocation, so there is a chance to get a place based on the criteria. Appeals only happen later on. I would suggest you submit all the documents again for school 3, because late applicants are considered in the next allocation rounds, so you will stand a better chance to secure a place this time round.

If you were unsuccessful on the next allocation rounds (next one should be mid May), and going to appeal, you have to really focus your appeal letter. The only valid reason for appeal is if the detriment to your son not attending the school is greater than the detriment to the school being oversubscribed/over its admission numbers. So for example, your DH being a carer is irrelevant. The drama element however is not and is what you should focus on.

Can you find the allocation data for your local authority? Most publish allocation statements for all oversubscribed schools (You sometimes have to dig deep to find the data). It really help to see who got the places previous years, distances and other criteria. You should also be able to find the data for births in your area so you can assess the likelihood of a place and focus your choice.