Private school bursary - how it’s decided?

@Georgieporgie29Thats not fair. I personally do not begrudge bursaries and paid boarding fees from which bursary money was paid. However it is very clear that 20% vat has caused finance issues at some schools for some parents. They cannot easily find the extra money and you might well be rolling in it, but it’s not fair or accurate to think all parents are and that they would not welcome lower fees. At secondary we had a good idea who bursary dc were. I don’t care that they were but there are parents funding bursaries at day schools who are not significantly better off than the bursary parents so of course they have to think about fee levels and might be keen to look at the generosity of bursaries. It’s inevitable.

No, all dc don’t go on all trips but if that will worry dc or you, be careful about always saying no. I know bursary dc who hated that.

My child is at private school and it surprises me how many of the children don’t go on the school trips so I don’t think for one minute that your child would stand out at all.

FWIW we aren’t in receipt of a bursary and I do not begrudge any children that do receive them, please don’t feel that all private school families hold the same opinion as a previous poster.

We also, don’t know which children have a bursary, they do give out scholarships badges though so if the children wear them then you know who has a scholarship.

Well done to you Son for doing well in his exam and I wish you well with whatever you decide to do.

It depends how much of a % of fees is supporting bursaries. Where schools are not attracting many wealthy parents, some parents will resent this and would rather fees were reduced. Some are definitely feeling the 20% and where I live, there’s fewer going to some of the “bargain basement” private schools where are bigger % of parents scrimp and save. The schools do see diverse entry as important but, from what I’ve seen, bursary dc tend to tick academic or sport boxes. They are not poor average dc.

@555Stars well said !

@555Stars again, noted. 👍

I was friendly with parents/grandparents who said dc had a bursary! Some don’t hide it. It’s also known who gets the large fees bursaries on offer at well known schools because they are also charitable scholars. They are admired and are often very bright dc. I think where money comes from fee income, it’s a bigger issue to keep finding it. Full fee payers might not have much spare money!

To think we are here discussing children!

I just about grasped your holiday analogy…and I remain unchanged. If there were no bursaries, then the fees would remain unchanged! Prices continuously go up for everything with very little justification normally.

Yes, I am happy for my school to have a charity status (there are benefits, incl’ tax ones) and it’s unlikely most schools would change because of their ethos & commitment to communities & the lack of diversity & full elitism it would bring. I am happy for a percentage of my fees to go towards this and the increase for the pot since VAT has been minimal- I spend more on 1 holiday than I would for the entire school duration!

This is my final point & 3rd message to you abt this. Whilst it doesn’t bring you “joy” as you said and you deny you’re upset-that’s clearly a lie. You’ve derailed this thread several times for somebody who states they’re not that bothered!

I hope you have a lovely day

@Tobstar106 👍

@Treesinsummer trying to bait you ? Ok now I understand where you are coming from !
gosh I give up with you , I do not do slang ! Nor should you !

@Tobstar106 you are getting very boring trying to bait me but be assured your comments have been noted

So can you afford 50%ish?

You are not that stretched if you can afford that!

At my DC's private school we had no idea who the DC on a bursary were. And many stretched themselves to pay fees and used the (excellent) second hand uniform shop, or just chose to because they were frugal, I don't believe that indicated bursary or not.

Bursaries are often linked to academic achievements or talents in music/sport. Children don't care but patents can easily guess if they have nothing else to do :)

When I was paying full fees, my DC was going in second hand uniform. When they got a scholarship, they kept going in second hand uniform 😁 I found out second hand uniform is quite popular even among fintech parents :))

The attitudes depend on the school and families. I've heard people bitching about other's children's scholarships and bursaries, but I don't think DC has ever experienced anything from children.

@Treesinsummer i have reread and reread and I really cannot understand what you are saying !
I believe English is not your first language , either that or you are talking a lot of cock and ball

i imagine that given the choice of paying nearly £2000 per year for another child to go to the school, or having a fee reduction, then a lot of parents would probably opt for a fee reduction… .

If you can’t afford the fees send to state school

I know some that pay a tiny amount but they are extremely clever others who aren’t as bright but passed the entrance exam and like yours only got offered 25%. You can ask the school.

@user149799568 exactly. I have made peace that I am paying the fees I am paying. However, not taking joy that money paid to the school is as you point out it going to lower the headline fees for the rest of us is not an extreme view. @555Stars @Tobstar106 would not take joy if they arranged to go on holiday and were told that Expedia could reduce the cost by thousands but won’t to pay for someone else to go away. They just wouldn’t. And if the school finds they are short for bursaries they clearly won’t shut them down they would find the money elsewhere as a fix.

I will give you this point tho @WombatChocolate. I don’t give much of a shit about what you classify as the bigger picture. My job is to give my children the opportunities I can and considering with VAT and the baiting language being used by
@555Stars @Tobstar106 ie: Emotional, mediocre, sad when I have said nothing of the sort just shows that actually the view of myself and those in my position that we don’t have much truck for it is perfectly reasonable. And it will be very interesting to see how the higher rates of fees and anger from those who perceive those who don’t just feel like being rinsed does impact people’s willingness to put their hands in their pockets for bursaries

@WombatChocolate

v few staff know who are on bursaries.

That's almost true in DC's school. It's one of the "big names" which provides bursaries to about 10% of students out of donations and commercial income (mostly franchise fees from overseas schools). They do ask bursary recipients whether they would be willing to address potential donors at parents' evenings and describe the experience at the school and the impact of the opportunities the bursary made possible. It's literally just the one named publicly each year and there's no stigma attached to it. It seems that they have no shortage of volunteers for this role.

re parental attitudes about bursaries - this poster who is annoyed about others getting bursaries - it’s an extreme view, expressed on an anonymous forum and not one you’re likely to encounter like this in real life. I mean….how rude and lacking in any emotional intelligence would it be!

It's not that uncommon a view. Most won't say this in as many words if they know that they're speaking with a bursary recipient but, after a few drinks at parents get togethers, I've heard plenty of grumbling and frustration that donations and, especially, the commercial revenues aren't being used to subsidize all pupils (in the form of a lower headline tuition rate) even if a school claims that the tuition fee is no more than the actual cost of educating a pupil.

job loss or personal family crisis can affect anyone and most schools will want to support families who are mid way through their school. No doubt, that poster would like to see such support available to themselves if needed…or the kids’ friends families.

Many parents take the attitude that families who might need this support should take insurance against the possibilities. At DC's school, this is available from a third party on an opt-out basis.

Bursars look at the bigger picture of overall fee income and it’s better to have some bursary students paying some fees than for them not to be there at all.

At some of the most prominent schools in London, the vast majority of bursary funding goes to children receiving 100%+ bursaries. At DC's school, about 7% of students are on full bursaries. 90% of students are paying full tuition. Apparently, only about 3% of students come from families with incomes in the range which qualify for partial bursaries.

The marginal cost of an extra student to the school is probably lower than you think.

Which is one of the reasons schools offer such large discounts to their staff. That and the fact that the compensation is tax free.

Most parents can see the bigger picture.

The parents whose children are still at a private school have made their peace with the school's bursary policy. I disagree that implies most agree with your bigger picture. I don't believe that most would concede that what bursary students might bring to a school is worth it (even when they're not the ones paying!). I believe that most are simply willing to pay even if they regard it as adding nothing as long as their children get to attend, similar to the way they are willing to pay VAT, and none of the parents I know think that the VAT they're paying is adding anything to their children's education.

@Treesinsummer i am just trying to educate you in understanding , you do not pay for peoples bursaries 2.the children who receive these high end bursaries are worth the school investing in them! You should not have a care in world what your school does with the fees you are paying as long as your children are getting a very good education.

@555Stars thank you for simplifying this issue .
you have absolutely 100% given the correct knowledge, although I tried to it didn’t look like I was getting through !
thank you

@555Stars good grief I am not upset and I didn’t even reply to the last comments by @Tobstar106, who it was if you look back actually said the kids who’s parents paid full fees were mediocre and that was only down to the bursary kids these schools achieved what they did.

Clearly if you have to provide bursaries which schools do under charitable regulations they will use to their advantage but let’s see where the trend goes on as the govt strips away that charitable status etc.

How the business decides to allocate their outgoings is entirely up to them! Even if they didn’t allocate towards the bursary pot, your fees would NOT change!

Exactly this. The school might choose to donate to eg a local care home or a maths for underprivileged children scheme instead.

I see you’re still upset in the comments which is sad to read. Whilst I understand your emotions attached to this, it still has no bearing on the original question. It just shows that there’s a stigma attached to the system due to some parents.

We & more specifically you, are not paying for those on a bursary, unless you donate. You are paying to privately educate your children. How the business decides to allocate their outgoings is entirely up to them! Even if they didn’t allocate towards the bursary pot, your fees would NOT change!

From a business perspective, Independent schools see the bursary scheme as a benefit. They can guarantee getting top students, who will have to work hard regardless due to funding and will bring top results. It doesn’t imply that fee paying children are “mediocre” but they can ‘fall behind” if they choose to (obviously, there’s still a standard to maintain). It also helps with a charity status/image and has many other benefits. Most profitable business give towards charities, this has been a long standing community focus in our society. @Tobstar106 is correct.

Again, rethink about what you’re saying and how you project you emotions onto others. You sound as if you’re one step away from randomly asking parents on bursaries to give you “your” money back! Which is just absurd!

Agree that v few staff know who are on bursaries. It absolutely s the case that all students are treated equally.

This concern about being the ‘poor one’ - or looked down on - you have to get beyond this - your child will be there because they passed the exam. Kids like other kids who are fun and find their tribes within sport or nerdy activities or the arts or whatever - there’s room and friendships for all. If you make money and the kind of house you live in a big thing for your kid, it will become an issue in their mind. But if you don’t, it won’t. Feelings of self worth and the importance (or lack of importance) come from parental attitudes. So if you have a chip on shoulder about being ‘poorer’ it’s more likely to be an issue for your child. Work hard at not voicing your concerns to your DC.

And re parental attitudes about bursaries - this poster who is annoyed about others getting bursaries - it’s an extreme view, expressed on an anonymous forum and not one you’re likely to encounter like this in real life. I mean….how rude and lacking in any emotional intelligence would it be!

Kids with scholarships and bursaries bring huge amounts to independent schools. They are often the more able and boost sports teams, music, the arts, exam results and uni places - all important selling points to schools and those that attract the full payers. Remember current parents are usually not funding bursaries. The money might come from alumni donations, philanthropists, investments, overseas schools in the group and other revenue streams. The pattern of school funding is complex and it isn’t the case that the poster above fees are determined by your bursary.

I’d remind the anti-bursary poster that much bursary funding has been used in recent times to support existing families too. VAT and other things like job loss or personal family crisis can affect anyone and most schools will want to support families who are mid way through their school. No doubt, that poster would like to see such support available to themselves if needed…or the kids’ friends families.

In the end, without bursaries and scholarships, more schools wouldn’t exist and actually couldn’t survive financially! You’d be surprised what proportions get some kind of support - and without it numbers often wouldn’t be viable in terms of school pupil numbers in school. Bursars look at the bigger picture of overall fee income and it’s better to have some bursary students paying some fees than for them not to be there at all. The marginal cost of an extra student to the school is probably lower than you think.

There might be the odd person who can’t see the bigger picture of society, nuances benefits to all in the school from bursaries and scholarships, who thinks only full fee payers should be allowed - who hasn’t thought through the implications of that for the school and actually their own child. Fortunately most parents know it’s more complex than that. Of course no parents like seeing their fees rise substantially - but they know when they do that bursary funding is one small part of it and part of an overall financial picture. Fees in recent years have risen substantially due to VAT, capital expenditure projects by schools, sometimes increasing pension costs, fuel bills, etc etc. Most parents can see the bigger picture.

If your bursary makes it affordable for your family - after you’ve made significant sacrifices - and you have to be prepared to make those because full fee payers often make substantial sacrifices and bursaries are not there to allow the recipients to continue lifestyles non-bursary holders can’t afford, and you think the sacrifices are worth it…go for it, if you’ve calculated the additional costs too and it’s viable for all of your family.

If the sacrifices needed either make it impossible or are just too much for your family to bear (consider impact of fees in other kids etc) then you might have to accept it’s out of reach….as it is to most.
Personally, I’d only really stretch myself for a pretty big name school that genuinely had a lot to offer and not for a school that offered marginal gains, but everyone chooses for themselves.