School ignoring requests for SENCO meeting

Not necessarily, if kids are quiet/well behaved, they are often overlooked and parents concerns dismissed.

I knew my child had a difficulty, but school were adamant that they didn’t. I went private and was right. The difficulty was very significant too and the adjustments now in place (which have required minimal time and effort from the school) have changed my child completely.

Schools are very adept seeing children with learning difficulties or difficulties in learning.
If he went through primary School without intervention, something else is going on

My feeling is don't wait for a diagnosis, and do pursue speech therapy because it can be amazing (my sixth former has pragmatics SaLT weekly). Don't give up on engaging school as you feel he may have additional/unmet needs but SENCos have a very senior and overworked role and especially in a big school they are firefighting. They can be hard to pin down. Keep being the squeaky wheel, maybe keep trying with HoY and see if you can get them to hook in the SENCo. Or if they offer you a meeting with someone more junior in the SEN team, grab it with both hands and work with them. Sometimes what works is relationships.

TBH ours only really started listening when DC virtually stopped being able to go into school.

As part of his SEN accommodations he is excused from all detentions, ironically. This kind of accommodation is absolutely possible but you are essentially competing with other families to be heard.

I find it very helpful to frame it to myself that that they are basically good people doing what they can, being massively overworked and firefighting the most urgent problems that day. It's massively frustrating when they just stonewall you but I suspend any thoughts of it being personal or unprofessional, or of giving up. Don't let the stonewalling work on you, it's a recognised technique for managing workload because it makes people give up. Keep trying, believe you can get through because you are your child's only real advocate.

What is he like doing homework at home? Are the problems similar? What is his explanation for not doing his work in class? Does he persevere with things he enjoys outside school?
I'm assuming you have tried all the common sense things like good diet (eg avoiding too much sugar, fizzy drinks etc), good sleep habits (eg no late night gaming), reasonable amount of exercise.

No, it's because the LA determined that one of my children needed the independent special school that was 22 miles from home and that another needed the special college provision which was 13 miles from home but 30 miles from the first school. The child who went to school 2 miles away was at their catchment school.

When you have complex children you don't get the luxury of choosing schools. You get the luxury of taking the school which says they can can meet their needs.

@IvoryRain just bear in mind that if you get an ADHD assessment privately and they suggest medication, the GP will not be able to take on the prescription. DD3 was seen at 15 by a private psychiatrist. NHS CAMHS had already diagnosed OCD and put her on a never ending series of waiting lists for therapies they knew she wouldn't cope with (literally said 'and when that fails, she'll be moved to waiting list b, and when that fails she'll get the waiting list for the thing she really needs...'). So we paid for a private assessment for OCD and she started medication privately. CAMHS agreed to put her on the psychiatry waiting list then. Then she reached the top of the waiting list and was diagnosed with ASD through the NHS. The assessors noted her ADHD features so she was put on the waiting list for that assessment. Her private psychiatrist (who works for CAMHS) offered to do the ADHD assessment at a cut price because he could use his notes from our previous sessions to reduce the assessment time and he felt she couldn't wait. She had the QB test and a further assessment with him. Then he medicated her. After 3 months she was stable on a regime, then I spent the next 4 months playing a game of chess with CAMHS and the GP surgery to get her medication changed over to the NHS. It was only because I was so doggedly determined that it was done. The turning point was when I asked for the complaints procedure from CAMHS. They suddenly realised they could prescribe her medication after all, and did so within a week.

you’ve referred him for salt - on what grounds? Usually salt for kids is one of two issues, either not speaking clearly (usually picked up in preschool or reception) or social communication needs (doesn’t understand what to say when, often goes with autism and is usually spotted at some point in primary.
a new referral at age 15 is unusual - can you clarify what it is for?

@Octavia64 the OP has posted again to explain that her DS has never had clear verbal communication and this has got worse to the point where his family cannot always understand him.

I agree that a new referral at age 15 is very unusual IME – it sounds as though this has always been an issue. I am surprised it was never flagged in primary tbh – my DS1 had SALT bc he was unable to say c and g (said them as t and d) which is common in nursery-aged DC but not by the time they are at school – we were obvs aware but nursery said he would grow out of it, then reception teacher flagged that we should get a SALT referral. I mean it may well be that SALT issues are much worse now and DS would now have slipped through the net – I guess that could be what has happened here.

@IvoryRain yes is he in year 11 or an older student in year 10? If the latter there is more time to make adjustments and maybe get a dx and start his normal way of working being having extra time (or whatever he needs).

I would be tempted to see an occupational therapist. Yes you can get a private assessment, but there is a good chance you will need more than one and that takes time and money. Lots of money. You don't have the time to wait for nhs (excluding right to choose if available) or your son will be an adult. An understanding of where his barriers to education and how to avoid or overcome them would be useful.

Also be more.vocwl about a meeting with his form teacher, or anyone else. It's in no one's interests to have the cycle of endless detention and isolation.

@unstablefeeling the whole system needs to change from the top down. Progress 8 etc is a farce - compelling students to sit English lit (for example) when they have a reading age of less than 10.
massive gaps in knowledge.
primary schools suppressing data so they look good.
adapted timetables being presented as ‘best for the child’ when they aren’t.
Children being set up to fail.

And it’s stressful enough if you know the system and you can advocate for your child. If you know when to ask and what to ask for.

I didn’t think the poster before was defending they were talking from a place of reality. If the vast majority of your students need hard won and fought for exam ‘needs’ were do you put them? Who do they sit with when the schools are understaffed? I thought the point they were making was all the concessions that are being asked for cannot be delivered as there is no money etc.

We have very knowledgeable people on here who know the law but it’s not the reality as I know it. And in the OP’s case unless they really really push…. That ‘can’ be be kicked down the road until they leave post GCSE’s because of their age.

I know it’s not palatable but it’s true (in my experience)

In my area school observes child for a term and determines if there’s need for a referral and school refer to pathways/do dyslexia screening/ get ed psych in.
But you can ask gp or go private if school arent engaging. Private will obviously be quicker.

No of course I don't think the class teachers are responsible for the rules, but there are school staff on this thread defending the status quo as though it's the parents and children who are the problem, rather than the system. The fact that all these kids need "reasonable adjustments" is surely proof that the standard provision just isn't right for the majority of children? I'm not saying there should be more SEN provision, but that less children would have "special" needs if schools just met those needs as a matter of course, by being nicer, calmer, smaller, less rigid.
My daughter was one of those kids going in for 45 minutes to sit on her own in a "nurture" room where no one was ever free to give her some work to do or, god forbid, "nurture". Now she goes to a tiny school with small class sizes and she is thriving, instead of being too terrified to even walk through the door.
I used to be a primary teacher. I know how hard it is. I left because I hated the system post-Gove and felt it was so damaging to young people and I didn't want to be part of it. I can't understand people who work in it actually defending it.

All the best with getting an assessment.

We went privately recently and still had a 1 month wait for the first appointment. There were four appointments each a week apart with diagnosis in the fourth. DC was screened for ASD and ADHD. Cost £3k.

I got a meeting with SENCO and assistant SENCO with a week’s notice, midway through the assessments. Another appointment two weeks later with 4 days notice which was after we had a diagnosis. This is a comprehensive with 1,100 children, 200 have SN. 30-40 ASD, and 30-40 with ASD traits.

SENCOs were excellent and have put some help in place.

Sounds like we’ve been unusually lucky - but things aren’t a complete mess everywhere.

I say this as someone who works in a school and as a parent of DC with SEN - you have to push. Schools are overwhelmed by the amount of SEN needs (in my school it’s running at around 50%) but that’s not your problem OP. The funding and support are something schools, LAs and Govt need to address.
Advocate for your DS. Look up and follow the complaints policy and go from there.

Do you honestly think classroom teachers make the rules about punishments and punitive measures?
They are handed down by SLT who never come in a classroom.
I have a ‘pupil passport’ for every child I teach. They can have 20-30 adjustments and interventions- per child.
County will do everything possible to delay assessment for children in very obvious need. And they don’t have the benefit of ‘parent power’ so they are left to fester. Get bounced from one school to another… adapted timetables…. Some of our students are only in for 45 minutes a day

It’s not a level playing field and it is at breaking point. I don’t even have a LSA for most of my lessons.

I have a large family and children diagnosed with ADHD in different schools... none of the schools has ever been the one to say your child needs to be assessed for ADHD. mostly they don't recognise it. esp if inattentive.
assessment and school support are kind of separate fights. but the school needs to hear you. the form tutor needs to help you dealing with the SENCO, and head of year and Head of middle school

Exactly this - the school worker that states that the normal school offer is unsuitable for almost 50% of their students but seems to think this is due to parents/children being too demanding 🤔

What other service would say oh yea, we're not accessible to half the people we're supposed to be serving but that's their problem. Can't do anything about it.

so homework on paper being lost - a way to solve this is either:

each subject has a little a4 plastic folder that has the book for that subject in plus and homework done. This is sorted and kept at home and you put it in when he has that subject the next day. That way the homework is automatically got out in the lesson.

OR

he has one plastic a4 folder that is his homework folder and all homework sheets whether completed or not go in there. He takes the sheets out at home to complete and takes them out of the folder to hand in.

i put the second in place for some year 7s in my form. Didn’t completely solve the problem but certainly meant much more homework got handed in.

you could also photograph the homework before it leaves your house and email it to the teacher. It would at least prove he did it. Some teachers might be happy to accept it instead of paper.

there are no places at their preferred choice of education.

Then the parents need to appeal to SENDIST. As I said, unless the school is wholly independent, a school being ‘full’, which isn’t defined in law, is not enough to refuse to name the placement in I if it is parental preference. The LA has to prove the school is so full admitting DC is incompatible with the efficient education of others or use of resources. The bar for this is higher than LAs and many schools admit. It has to be something tangible and specific and is more than an “adverse effect”, “impact on” or “prejudicial to”. Once the school is named in I, they must admit.

Other than in the small minority of cases where a full-time education in any form is not suitable, the LA should be providing other provision in addition to the part-time school provision to ensure the DC still receive a suitable full-time education. This does not have to be at home. AP comes in many, many forms.

Be aware some ICB’s have paused RTC referrals.

A diagnosis isn’t required in order for a child to be classed as having SEN. OP’s DS meets the legal definition of having SEN, needs special educational provision to be made, and absolutely should be coded as K.

I don’t work in the SEN unit.
I know from students and parents that there are no places at their preferred choice of education. Most choose a reduced timetable, rather than being home schooled, whilst they wait for a place to become available. But they spend a lot of their time using their reset cards and come to my room, as they like it there!

Ok.

so firstly, it might help to be a bit more specific about what the issues are.

you’ve referred him for salt - on what grounds? Usually salt for kids is one of two issues, either not speaking clearly (usually picked up in preschool or reception) or social communication needs (doesn’t understand what to say when, often goes with autism and is usually spotted at some point in primary.

a new referral at age 15 is unusual - can you clarify what it is for?

re meeting the Senco, at the moment your child does not have a diagnosis and is not on the Sen register.

it’s not obvious that meeting the Senco is going to help your son. Is he in year 11 ie coming up to GCSE’s?

you mention that he is getting lots of detentions for disorganisation and lack of focus, and that if he gets multiple detentions in a day he goes to exclusion - presumably you mean he goes to a room at school rather than being sent home.

what specifically are the detentions for? Most schools have a system where teachers have to log the detentions and write a few words. So for example, not doing homework, etc.

there is a lot that you as a parent can do to help with disorganisation - I have a child (now adult) with adhd and we went through the whole checking school bag every morning, checking online homework every evening, sitting over her until it was done, working out which days were PE etc and making sure she had her kit etc.

how is he doing academically? Is he on track? What are his target gcse grades and is he on track to make them by the most recent mocks?

is that because you chose a school miles away from where you live?

Anyone who had the first clue about special/specialist schooling or even SEN in general wouldn’t post this. It is common knowledge of anyone with the faintest understanding that DC regularly travelling very long distances to the nearest approaching placement.

A lot of our pupils win their appeal, but often don’t like what is offered to them. So they then have to wait for a place which they feel would be better.

@cotswoldsgal1234 I’m not sure what you mean by this. Can you please explain? Section I can be part of appeals, so if parents wanted to pursue a change of placement, it could have been part of their appeal. Do you mean not immediately after the appeal to SENDIST but later down the line a change of placement is then required? Or do you mean their RTA and/or RTI appeals are upheld but they dispute the content/placement of the EHCP when issued?

It is about what is reasonably required to meet their needs and an appropriate placement. It isn’t merely about DC ‘liking’ the support or not. DC aren’t entitled to the best education.

Even if CSA DC can’t attend school full-time, they are still entitled to a suitable full-time education (and for those with EHCPs, the SEP in F). This comes in various forms. One being home tuition. Home tuition either via section 19 of the Education Act 1996 or section 61 of the Children and Families Act 2014 can and does happen across the country. Section 19 provision can be enforced via JR if necessary. EOTAS/EOTIS via section 61 of the Children and Families Act 2014 can be secured via appealing to SENDIST, then if necessary, enforcing the provision via JR.

Focusing on the positive you have a SaLT appointment. I would be working out what you want from that and making sure you keep some notes of communication issues as you see them.

Id possibly wait to hear what the first appointment feedback if its early to mid-jan and approach the senco again then with some fresh news. Sort of 'i need to discuss with you the salt findings asap as they will be important to child getting good behaviour for learning and making academic progress'

If its a very late Jan appointment you could try 'i have got this appointment and id really value your input before it happens, we've been on the wait list forever and want to grasp our chance'