Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

The 11+ was a eugenics test to weed out genetically "inferior" children, created by a classicist who falsified his research

408 replies

ParentOfOne · 09/10/2025 10:03

I had already made a post a few months ago about why I think the 11+ and similar tests are flawed.

Since many families have just gone or are going through the 11+ drama now, I just wanted post a short but timely reminder that the 11+ was born as a eugenics test at the beginning of last century, when eugenics was all the rage. That meant looking for pseudo-scientific ways to improve the genetic "quality" of human population, by identifying "inferior" races and individuals, and "improving" the other ones.

The father of the 11+ was Cyril Burt, a posh t*at gentleman who studied classics at Oxford and then took an interest in psychology, without any training in medicine, psychology, mathematics, statistics.

He became convinced that intelligence was innate and not affected by the environment, and therefore wanted to find ways to identify the innately gifted and intelligent children, with the not so subtle implication that everyone else could go f* themselves was better suited for other, less academic pursuits.

Before dying, he burnt all his records and notes, and the current academic consensus is that he was guilty of scientific misconduct (falsifying data).

A campaign group against the 11+ and selective schools summarises his story here

If that seems too partisan, you might want to read what the British Psychological Society has to say (spoiler: mostly the same things).

To recap:

  • the 11+ was created by a posh t* who had studied Classics and lacked any training in psychology, statistics, mathematics, the sciences in general
  • the ideology behind it was the (now debunked) idea that intelligence is innate and unaffected by the environment
  • the gentleman in question had fabricated a large part of his research
  • there is no scientific study on the reliability of these tests, on how better or not the kids who ace these tests do vs the kids who do not, on why answering those questions in 30 seconds makes you more intelligent than answering them in 45, etc
  • the very concept of IQ is controversial
  • when similar tests are used by psychologists, they cannot be administered too frequently, otherwise the results are biased. This alone proves that the notion that there can be no tutoring is utter bs, as proven by the huge industry that exists around tutoring for the 11+
  • it is well known that selective and partially selective state schools are hugely SOCIALLY selective; the % of kids on free school meals at those schools is always much lower than elsewhere (e.g. only 5.8% at Henrietta Barnett in London). Cyryl Burt would have said that richer kids are inherently more intelligent; I call bs and say those schools select the kids whose families can either tutor them themselves or pay for tutoring

So, if you are non-white and/or non-British and/or working class, remember that these tests were conceived with the explicit aim of weeding out undesirable and obviously genetically inferior people like you (if any artificial stupidity censor reads this, that was sarcasm ).

Cyril Burt - Wikipedia

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyril_Burt

OP posts:
Thread gallery
16
InMyShowgirlEra · 09/10/2025 10:49

FairKoala · 09/10/2025 10:43

What ever this guy thought the 11+ was supposed to be about I know it didn’t have anything to do with intelligence or right answers

In the 60s in my area everyone knew that if you lived in a council house or had divorced / single parent household there was no way, even if you got 100% on the test you weren’t going to the grammar school. Where as if you lived in the nice new estate in the detached houses then even if you could barely read you were in. Don’t forget the head of the school had the final say in who they thought was suitable.
This was brought into focus when friend who was the top student scoring 90%+ in any exams we had (lived on the council estate and had planned to go to Oxford was told she failed the 11+ She was devastated. She knew she faced a battle because of where she lived. Her family asked if her test could be remarked but headmaster said there was no point. Where as another friend who could barely read but lived in the bought detached houses got into the grammar.

Go figure

Idk where you grew up but my Dad went to Grammar school from a council estate and he is still friends today with the other old boys from the same estate. That was in the early 60s. My husband went to Grammar school from a B & B after his family had been evicted from their house back in the early 90s.

The papers are marked by machine nowadays and if you score the right number you get in.

angelcake20 · 09/10/2025 10:48

Like @FluffMagnet, I think we need far more setting/different pathways in education and I’m a secondary teacher of a core subject. For most subjects, pupils are all doing the same material and it’s really unfair on the more able; there is only so much “differentiation” that can be done in a large, diverse class where some students have additional needs (the reality for most comprehensives). It’s equally unfair on those who struggle and kids not having a clue what’s going on in lessons is behind a fair amount of behaviour. 11+ tests vary by location and mostly bear no resemblance to the one I took 40 years ago. The only downside is the tutoring aspect - we all took the test with no preparation etc and it would have given far more meaningful results.

MotherofPufflings · 09/10/2025 10:47

Lots of people still think that intelligence is innate. Only last week I read someone arguing in BTL comments that the reason social mobility is lower nowadays is because rich people are more intelligent than poor people and pass on their superior genes to their children.

InMyShowgirlEra · 09/10/2025 10:45

(And I tutored 11+ for years and can confirm it makes very little difference. For 80% of the children I tutored, I could have told you on the day they walked in whether they were going to pass the test.)

FairKoala · 09/10/2025 10:43

What ever this guy thought the 11+ was supposed to be about I know it didn’t have anything to do with intelligence or right answers

In the 60s in my area everyone knew that if you lived in a council house or had divorced / single parent household there was no way, even if you got 100% on the test you weren’t going to the grammar school. Where as if you lived in the nice new estate in the detached houses then even if you could barely read you were in. Don’t forget the head of the school had the final say in who they thought was suitable.
This was brought into focus when friend who was the top student scoring 90%+ in any exams we had (lived on the council estate and had planned to go to Oxford was told she failed the 11+ She was devastated. She knew she faced a battle because of where she lived. Her family asked if her test could be remarked but headmaster said there was no point. Where as another friend who could barely read but lived in the bought detached houses got into the grammar.

Go figure

InMyShowgirlEra · 09/10/2025 10:43

It's just an IQ test with extra English and maths.

If you want to rail against IQ tests then go ahead but it's not as if the 11+ is the only test which uses it.

Pretending that we're all born with equal intelligence and equal academic potential is silly- of course there is a large proportion of it that's innate.

If kids are feeling labelled a failure for not getting into Grammar school that's on the parents. SD didn't get in, she's extremely happy at her comprehensive school and is doing brilliantly. She's in Y11 and with the GCSE results she's predicted, she could easily transfer to a Grammar school for 6th form but she'd rather stay where she is. Grammar school would not have suited her and she wouldn't have thrived like she has.

ParentOfOne · 09/10/2025 10:29

@FluffMagnet Why we force all children to do the same things, I will never know.

??? Why people think the current system forces children to do the same thing, I will never know. That is most certainly not the case. All kids must take GCSE English and Maths. But some kids take higher maths and some kids take foundation. There is a degree of choice in the other subjects. It's not like every kid is forced to study Latin, Further Maths, Physics and Mandarin

The grammar system is great for kids who are naturally academically minded

No. The grammar system can be good for those kids:

  • who are well-rounded and do well at both English and Maths, and
  • who are mature enough aged 10 (every child matures at a different pace, some just flourish later), and
  • who tend to come from families who can either tutor them directly or pay for tutoring

How do you explain that academically selective schools are also socially selective and have fewer kids on free school meals? Just an odd coincidence?

Also, does the fact that the 11+ was conceived as a eugenics test by a disgraced non-scientist who falsified his research not bother you at all?

Using sets is a much more balanced approach. A kid can be in the top set for one subject but the middle set for another. Kids can move up and down sets. Kids do not get labelled as a failure at 10 if they don't pass a test.

OP posts:
FluffMagnet · 09/10/2025 10:15

Frankly I think we need more division of secondary education, akin to the Dutch and German systems. Some children are academic, others more practical/engineer minded. Why we force all children to do the same things, I will never know. Encourage children to pursue their natural talents, rather than chase unattainable ideals, and choose the child's schooling on that basis.

The grammar system is great for kids who are naturally academically minded. It is a shame we as a country to little to cater for children gifted in other areas.

Swipe left for the next trending thread