GCSE: is it true they're graded so that ca 1/3 must fail? How are boundaries decided?

If I had a 16 year old struggling with fractions and percentages, my top concern would be what they will do in life, not what random strangers may or may not think.

You assume that ALL parents care about their children's education. We live in the real world here and you would be surprised at how many DC have little to no support at home. The issues are way more complicated, then you throw in SEN and now days more mental health issues, broken homes ect. I'm surprised that as many children do so well.

"If you would rather pat these parents on the back and tell them that it doesn't matter, you do you, but I think it's counterproductive."

I think you are misunderstanding my point. I can't see anywhere I have patted anyone on the head or said that improving maths and english skills isnt important. However, I went to an average comprehensive and my DD attends a similar comprehensive. I am aware of the many barriers some students have to attainment. I am also aware that there are avenues to sucess when young people dont achieve a 4 in Year 11. Some students have parents who for many reasons cant help.at home. Some students even with substantial parental input dont achieve that 4 8n Year 11. I wouldn't refer to their efforts as 'putting lipstick on a pig', but that's just me i guess.

I want a better funded education system and for standards to rise. I have seen some of your previous threads & thought we shared some views on education. However, i do think how students who are lower attaining are discussed matters.

The maths my dc have done seems to bare little similarity to the maths I did at gcse. It’s worlds apart and much more complicated. It’s not just the fractions and percentages you talk about.
if they are being taught extra stuff they don’t necessarily need maybe they can’t spend the extra time some children need on the day to day maths e.g fractions and percentages

That's a strawman. I have commented multiple times in the thread how getting a 3 means scoring something like 40-50% of the easier (foundation paper). Sometimes even less.

Yes, but then you've gone on about 30-40% of kids being unable to answer a question about pens. Even though you admit that they could score 50% on the paper and still get a 3, you're saying that they were all flummoxed by the pen question.

But, let's be realistic, how many?

More than you seem to think!

DS1 needed teaching that too. He calls those questions stupid. Because Janice is right. You can fill 11 boxes. Being able to also fill more boxes doesn’t mean you can’t fill 11.

DS3 needed teaching that they don’t want a long spiel about how Janice can fill 11 boxes but would have 108 pens left so could also fill another 9.

Failing to get a 4 doesn't mean getting that question wrong.

You seem to think that not getting a 4 means that they can't answer any question on the paper.

It also requires it being noticed, and the intervention agreed upon and encouraged

Dd sat her gcse this year (last academic year), I’d be interested to know how they set grade boundaries as they didn’t sit year 6 SATs due to covid.

I totally agree with this, the number of students who enter high school now nit being able to access the circulum is rather troubling. The children's centres where doing great work until their funding was cut. It really is important to start early.

Trying to catch up at high school is hard work and requires a lot of resources. If they are all ready for high school first you've wone half the battle.

@ParentOfOne you seem to be unaware that there is a range of attainment at 16. Some young people for many different reasons find maths and english hard. Others excel. To get a grade 4 at gcse you have to be able to answer much harder questions than those you are quoting. Questions like this do appear at the start of foundation papers, but then they move on to harder material. You are right that some children at 11 can answer gcse level questions (at my DD's very average comprehensive some students get 4+ in Year 7). Other students dont get a 4 in Year 11. There are next steps for those students to help them progress into work and FE (that can be resits or functional skills level 1 or 2).
I would think about how you are discussing low attainment. How do you think your comments make the parents of low attaining children feel? Passing GCSE maths and english requires more thsn very basic literacy & numeracy.
Im sure we would both agree that we need a better funded education system so that all young people get a better education.

We rank pretty highly in maths compared internationally.

The people not getting a 4 may well have demonstrated their understanding of fractions and percentages but not other areas.

Im only basing this in the fact that my son passed level 1 functional skills which is a 1-3 at gcse and to pass he did have to understand those concepts. If he didn't, he would have failed.

We have certainly had a lot more trouble teaching that in that question the answer they want is not "Yes, she can fill 11 boxes" (because she has enough pens to fill 20, which is a larger number than 11) than in teaching the maths skills behind it.

What makes you think that 30-40% of kids would get that question wrong?

Did you get awarded a CSE if you failed the O-Level with enough points scored?

It is possible to do courses directly at Level 1, and obviously in those cases that is the purpose of the course and if you do the Level 1 work sufficiently you get the Level 1 certificate, which is a pass of that course.

If you get Grade 2 GCSE, what do you record it as on a CV? It isn't really a "Level 1 certificate in Whatever", it is a very low grade GCSE in Whatever.

@ParentOfOne

You have mentioned 10 year olds and the 11 plus a few times now. My understanding of the 11 plus is that its to select out 'academic" pupils to go to grammar schools. And yes an academic 10 year old suitable for grammar school would hopefully be aiming for a 7 at gcse at least. So at 10 I assume they would have a good grasp of the concepts to build on. Depending on locality you are aiming at the highest attaining 5% to 30%

Those questions might be on the 11 plus, but are you sure that every student is 'passing?' The 11 plus. (I appreciate its not a fixed thing) Presumably there is a chunk people not getting it then either. They will mostly be the ones not getting it at 15 either.

I dontvquite understand the surprise that higher attaining people get concepts earlier and build on them.

But also 20% of people do have some sort of sen. It won't always affect maths

People who have children who studied for the 11+ often have zero idea about the normal school population.

This is true for a lot of subjects, you have to teach how to pass the exam as well as the content.

A few years ago someone on here was asking about their teenager taking a GCSE in a MFL, I think he had autism and was struggling to talk about his family.

But the thing with MFL is they want you to speak the language, the assessor doesn't care if you are an only child or say that 5 older brothers and 5 younger sisters. It is the language they are assessing.

@Araminta1003 thank you! I am immensely proud. The biggest success was sitting them at all. I didn’t know if he would be able to sit them right up to the start of each paper. A lot of work by many professionals has gone in to getting DS1 to this point.