Number of kids getting extra time in exams MASSIVELY overstated

@BusWankers
Yes so what does their qualification achieve if in reality it won't progress them further? Ok self worth and joy on results day, but it might then lead to wrong choices (for them) as to what they can achieve at A level and beyond.

I do worry whether we are then giving those kids a false sense of what is realistically achievable in the workplace and the competition they might encounter, which in turn leads to massive frustration and disappointment with lots of rejections when firms (particularly in the professions) use their own admissions "tests" . In my job, I see this at first hand.

Fine for those who need a scribe etc, but not (in my view) for "slow processing".

Well if a person had dexterity and/or processing issues ... They probably wouldn't applying to be a surgeon, if they were, they wouldn't likely qualify would they???

No. Because the fastest one might be an utter cunt in real life, regularly turns up late, is homophobic and calls in sick 3 days a month.

But the faster runner is more impressive and top of the shop if medals were handed out. If you saw those stats, you know eh you would be employing, if fast efficiency was your criteria.

So why are exams time pressured then if not to test quick application ? For example a lawyer couldn’t charge the client for three hours’ work if his colleagues only took one hour because that lawyer had slow processing skills and couldn’t assimilate information and apply the law to them as quickly. Likewise a surgeon taking far longer to do an operation would adversely affect the patient, not to mention the cost to the NHS.

Both complete the task, but the length of time taken means that the quicker employee will be more sought after.

Yes it would.

Just as the person who runs a marathon in 5hrs45m achieved the same thing as a person who ran it in 3h34m

They both achieved a medal for completing the requirements.

No it isn’t rubbish. We were encouraged to read at school as it developed vocabulary but perhaps your dd is an exception

I don't think it is especially tight for time - I think the problem is that the candidates aren't taught how to manage that time effectively.

I see lot of excessively long Q5 (in fact one of my own colleagues tells her classes to aim for 4-5 sides... which is horrible advice).

@TeenToTwenties
Clearly severe dyslexia is different, but I am convinced that if children read more, the majority would be better at comprehension and would write better too.

Unfortunately the lure of tech means that many get bored easily by books and don’t have the staying power ( I have young adults as well as teens and can see the difference in approach)

As you are here, I'd be interested in your opinion on whether Eng Lang is really tighter for time in exams than other subjects (which is my perception from many years on MN), and if so then why the boards do it like that.

I wonder what some of the posters on this thread would make of the 200% extra time one of our candidates had a few years ago.

I believe there was a bit of a kerfuffle surrounding University Challenge (a Christmas special) where a team member was requesting the questions in writing in advance. So I don’t think real life can always be as accommodating as exams.

Would you?

So you wouldn’t hire my DS who excels at software development and currently works in that field because he has a physical disability that requires him to have extra time as he needs a scribe?

One of the few accessible jobs for wheelchair users and your first priority would be to discriminate against him based on extra time?

They they say disability awareness is improving 🤦🏼‍♀️

Ah yes the perennial 'read more' rubbish.

My DD read a lot in primary, still didn't help her SPaG.
Then secondary hit and she was so exhausted after a day at school she had no energy left for yet more hard work (which reading is to her due to her dyslexia).

It is almost like saying that if only a deaf person would listen to more music they would get better at picking out different songs. (However I understand that some deaf people can 'feel' music v. well).

If only our DC with learning issues just tried harder....

My DD has tried harder at Maths & English than I ever had to.

Yes I wasn’t great at those subjects either so I take your point

I think if some students did more reading of books they would do a lot better

There is a skill to using the extra time and I thinking is often lacking, my son has been given a laptop ( as well as handwriting classes and other hand strengthening activities) he doesn’t always use the laptop as he wants to write and be like everyone else, but he loses marks when it is handwritten and teachers have raised concerns that it doesn’t show his actual knowledge level. I am hoping he will start to see the difference himself and then see the benefit.

I’m an exam invigilator and the irony where I work is that most of the students who have extra time don’t use it! Same with laptops-vast majority don’t use them even if their handwriting is illegible!

Candidates can be academically able and still qualify for extra time. It isn’t always one or the other.

I have 2 academically able DC whose additional needs are such that they aren’t educated in a school but have EOTAS/EOTIS packages. They have exam access arrangements, including extra time. One has 50% and one 25%.

Although the fact she can eventually get the questions right still doesn’t make her the same level as someone who “got it” very quickly when being taught.

I suppose it depends what the aim of GCSEs is. If it’s to differentiate between candidates, then arguably it’s not particularly effective if some non disabled children who have slow processing either do or (to use your example ) don’t get extra time!

@noblegiraffe
When you put it like that I see your point!

Hey Ho… all done and dusted now 🥲

You could give most kids all day in a maths exam and they still wouldn't be able to do the grade 9 questions.
So in my view yes it would reflect her true ability.

Intelligence is a very difficult thing to measure and simple IQ tests that just give a score where 100 is average, >150 is genius and <50 is severely mentally challenged are basically discredited as not a useful measure. Educational Psychology assessments instead use WISC-V (en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wechsler_Intelligence_Scale_for_Children) to measure 5 different types of intelligence Verbal Comprehension Index (VCI), Visual Spatial Index (VSI), Fluid Reasoning Index (FRI), Working Memory Index (WMI), and Processing Speed Index (PSI).

For example a child can be on the 99.9th centile for VCI and VSI, on the 99th centile for FRI and the 90th for WMI, but on the 45th centile for PSI. They are extremely intelligent and able where it actually counts, but in standardised exams without reasonable adjustments would get worse results than a child who is around the 80th centile on all measures. A well design examinations system is set up to allow a child who has 99th centile + abilities to shine, not consign them to be categorised as someone with below-average abilities because the blunt tool of timed examinations doesn't work with how they function.

I know several children who get extra time in part, but not wholly for issues with slower processing, including my DD.

A lot depends on discrepancies with other scores.

A child who has average VR, NVR and spatial scores, combined with average processing speed and average working memory is likely to be looking at average grades (if we reckon they are reasonably hard working and no other issues) and no amount of extra time is going to change a thing with their grades.

A child who has VR, NVR and spatial scores on the 98th centile (so are in the top 2 out of every hundred people), but processing speed is average (50th centile) is going to potentially struggle compared with a child whose processing speed is in line with their other scores.

When Ed Psychs talk about spiky profiles, these are the kids they mean - where there are significant differences between their key scores.

If you then combine average processing with a weak working memory it's an even bigger issue.

What is so depressing about these kinds of threads is that the people who complain and worry that little Johnny might get an extra 20 minutes and that's 'not fair' have absolutely no clue just how much of a problem spiky scores can be in practice. Not just in exams, but every day.