Economics degree without maths

A level Maths doesn't make A level Economics easier - it's largely an essay subject. In fact the maths required can be so simple (percentage change and ratios) that the Maths-able end up overthinking it.

It's important to understand that A level Economics and degrees in Economics are potentially very different beasts.

I did BA Economics & French without maths A level and had no problems at all. Maths with stats was a compulsory course in my first year at uni which you had to pass to continue but I didn’t find it overly taxing. I went into chartered accountancy with the Big Four (and hated it but that had nothing to do with maths) and since then have spent my entire career working in banking. Being numerate is essential but not having maths A level isn’t going to hold anyone back. My side job (i.e. in addition to my full time role) is as the hiring lead for our global team (at one of the world’s big name banks recruiting across Europe, Asia & US) and maths qualifications has never once factored into any recruitment discussion.

Not doing A level maths isn’t going to hold him back. Unless he wants to be a quant or similar.

OP, your DS may want to read the Prospects ac.uk 'What do graduates do' report (link below). The section on economics shows typical initial sector destinations and job titles.

Economics degree composition varies a lot; from those that are really more akin to maths & stats degrees through to those that are more akin to history or politics degrees. Choosing an Econ BA with very little quantitative element still enables entry into lots of finance and policy roles, but you are competing with Econ BSc grads and with humanity and other social science grads. By contrast Econ BSc can go for those roles and the more heavily quantitative ones.

Set against that, Maths A level is a step up and securing, say, only a B, when an A or Astar might have been secured in another subject, would also limit uni and ultimate career options in a different way. So there are trade offs. As @Octavia64 says, Core Maths would be a very good addition to 3 A levels that did not include Maths. Edexcel A level Maths is 50% pure, 25% mechanics and 25% statistics. So stats are there but if you are struggling with pure and/or mechanics, it is difficult.

With reference to degree-level apprenticeships, parents can see these as 'free degrees', whereas really they are specific roles/careers paths with narrowly specified training attached. This suits DC who are very clear about their career path (as options are narrowed down), have the early maturity to be managed and treated in the same way as grad entrants and who understand what they are giving up in terms of the social scaffolding that uni can provide. Investigation and research driven by the DC in Y12 is best in this context as applications open as early as Sep Y13 for job start the following Sep, so they need to have their head screwed on and be able to articulate persuasively why they are the right person for the job.

luminate.prospects.ac.uk/what-do-graduates-do

DD has just finished her first year doing BSc Economics after doing A level maths. The course didn't require maths a level and as a result covered a lot of maths she'd already done, to the extent she has been cruising and very bored for much of this year, high grades with virtually no revising etc. I'm hoping the second year isn't too much of a shock.

Takeaway - not having maths isn't really a disadvantage for a course that doesn't require it, as it will all be covered in the first year.

I have an economics degree.

the field itself once you have a degree doesn’t necessarily require maths. Friends of mine went into developmental economics, international institutions like the world bank, and also into finance.

economics is a bit like geography in that there’s a lot of different aspects under one roof.

so my degree included economic history, some politics, economic modelling (maths required) and a fair bit of stats.

I’d imagine you can do economics degrees without any maths or stats but I’d be a bit wary because there is a basic level of understanding particularly of stats and data handling to work in the field.

core maths is actually quite a good choice as there is some financial maths in there (more complicated interest rates and loans) as well as stats.
the maths a level focuses much more on pure maths and mechanics (basically physics) whereas the useful stuff is the stats.

For Economics as there tends to be a lot of applications per place for the very competitive courses it is worth considering applying in stages and reviewing what else you add based on offers that have come in. My DD did this.

Oxbridge you have to apply by mid October, everywhere else is end January and as long as you meet those deadlines my understanding is due to fair access criteria you have the same chance of getting an offer. When DD applied some universities seemed to offer in batches so if you say applied to Bristol pre 15 October you would have got an offer before someone like DD who applied in November if you are clearly someone who would get an offer which would be people on 4 A stars or 3 A stars. Others are put on hold to ensure its fair who gets offers until all on-time applications are in at end January.

DDs school advised 2 aspirational choices and 3 safe ones but this is difficult in economics at the top end - you have to go down quite a bit to get safe ones. Apply to 5 competitive ones straight away and there's a risk you get no offers even with 4 A stars and Maths and FM, its rare but it happens. So either you play it very safe or you go high risk with a year out as backup plan or you do in stages.

DD applied to Oxford and LSE in October leaving other 3 blank. Then later added Bristol in November (with 3 A stars and state) - she received an offer from Oxford at start of January then Bristol shortly after. She then added Bath and got an offer back immediately mid Jan. LSE didn't respond until May and they have 20 applicants per place, its a very maths based course.

Admissions tests are something also to consider if going for the very competitive courses. For Economics at maths based courses these are Maths based (TMUA) and best to have Maths and FM at A level for that one. For the more social science based courses its TSA at Oxford for PPE and E&M though E&M needs Maths A level and even PPE the economics is shared with E&M so Maths A level is helpful and better to have.

Its well worth looking on university websites and getting your child to do as much as possible. Degree apprenticeships I don't know much about but they aren't the easy thing to get and there's a thread on the Higher Ed board about someone getting one for this Sept with the civil service in a subject close to economics and offer has just been withdrawn so again you need a plan B. Things can change from year to year so always check for right year - LSE has gone to TMUA from personal statement.

I’d think carefully about economics without A level maths. Even a level economics is far easier with A level maths.

having said that there are some universities who run a BA economics which is a bit less mathsy (although you certainly can’t escape maths altogether). DN is at Lancaster and is enjoying it (although did get a 9 at gcse and also did core maths so had kept up the maths through sixth form)

I’d think carefully about economics without A level maths. Even a level economics is far easier with A level maths.

having said that there are some universities who run a BA economics which is a bit less mathsy (although you certainly can’t escape maths altogether). DN is at Lancaster and is enjoying it (although did get a 9 at gcse and also did core maths so had kept up the maths through sixth form)

I’d think carefully about economics without A level maths. Even a level economics is far easier with A level maths.

having said that there are some universities who run a BA economics which is a bit less mathsy (although you certainly can’t escape maths altogether). DN is at Lancaster and is enjoying it (although did get a 9 at gcse and also did core maths so had kept up the maths through sixth form)

I’d think carefully about economics without A level maths. Even a level economics is far easier with A level maths.

having said that there are some universities who run a BA economics which is a bit less mathsy (although you certainly can’t escape maths altogether). DN is at Lancaster and is enjoying it (although did get a 9 at gcse and also did core maths so had kept up the maths through sixth form)

There’s no set rule - it will vary from course to course, and from uni to uni. However, universities are not allowed to
close courses to further applicants until after the equal consideration deadlines (Oct for Oxbridge, Medics, Vets) or January (everything else) so the poster who said that you need to apply early because courses fill up, is just wrong.

@Lemonsole I am genuinely a bit confused now. What are you saying - students get the same amount/level of offers whenever they apply but they take longer to come if you apply later - is that right?

The “first come, first served” point is not true. The equal consideration UCAS deadline is just that: applications arriving on the date must be treated with the same consideration as those arriving on 1st September. Most competitive unis and courses sort applicants by strength, and balance offers throughout the process. They know that each student has five choices, so they can’t assume that every high achiever will firm them.
I tell my students that they aren’t disadvantaged by applying later in the process, and it’s worth delaying if you’re unsure - but if you’re early you’ll get lots of nice offers immediately for courses where your predicted grades match or exceed the stated entry grades.

I have twice had students get good university offers and a degree apprenticeship offer. Both went for the degree apprenticeship and both seem very happy on them (if a bit wistful about having to get up in the morning...)

Oh I meant to add that UCAS apps and degree apprenticeship apps are separate but on a similar schedule, so students can wait and compare when some offers are in.

The UCAS website is very informative.

To add to @clary's clear advice: students applying anywhere competitive should do so in the autumn and earlier rather than later, as some universities make offers on a first come (with decent predictions), first serve basis. Plus the later you leave it the more frazzled the school UCAS advisor gets!

While predicted grades can and often do change in September/October, in practice the school will have a deadline for changes, and students pressuring teachers to give unrealistic predicted grades right through to November or early December helps no-one, least of all the student - it's a distraction from actually studying!

Your DC's school should advise, but briefly:

Apply by mid Jan of year 13 - unless applying for Oxford, Cambs, vet, med or dental - in which case by mid-October. You can submit your UCAS form with fewer than five choices and then add unis as long as you are within the deadline. Offers can come through within days but can also take months (that may be uni dependent – some seem to play it very late – or may depend on popularity of course and where you are in the order)

PGs usually based on year 12 mocks/work but it varies by school. DS2 had a low PG for one A level and put in a lot of work at the start of year 13 and they pulled it up.

Visits to unis ideally in the summer of year 12; there are also open days autumn of year 13. They tend to clash tho (only so many weekends) and it's not practicable to go to more than one in a day IMHO. Plan this in advance as they get booked up.

Degree apprenticeships are much talked of on MN and elsewhere as a great solution; in practical terms they are hugely competitive; it's a lot easier to get a place even at a top uni. I know someone whose DC is doing one and it doesn't sound great tbh but obvs there are some excellent ones. Not sure about the timescale tho. It may depend on the apprenticeship tbh (it does for post-16 ones).

Course requirements | Discover Economics https://share.google/V2uUPtQ6iu4iGxSYu

There are universities which offer a "with Maths A-level" and "without Maths A-level" parallel route for Economics. Worth setting filters carefully on Unifrog or whatever programme your DC's school sunscribes to.

@Bufftailed Looking at his general ability, consider which universities might be suitable because the top ones will want maths. The CU Guide might help with the ranking of the non maths ones. Then look at the BA courses in more detail. Are they what DS would expect? Could he see himself doing these courses?

Plus, being a bit negative, what people achieved years ago is not now! The world for grads has changed. The IFS looked at the salaries of economics grads. They vary a lot! So university matters. Elite uni, elite jobs. The work sectors he’s aiming for can be ultra competitive and many get in via internships. So there’s competition way before you graduate.

If he’s going to pursue this, be very careful about university and course. There’s also the lemming effect. Huge pressure to get the high paying jobs at some universities. At others, students live local and stay local. They are not looking for the higher paying jobs so there’s less ground swell to get one. Often the students at the high tarrif universities do well is that they caught up in the internship/job applications merrygoround. So I would think very carefully about job snd suitable degree as well as student cohort.

Its worth checking what others on the course have in terms of Maths and FM A levels. My DD finds the Maths fine with A level maths and a 50% course but is very mathematical.

A lot in finance are fluent in other languages though its often something they have done as well as degree and are foreign. Maths A level would open up more Economics degree options but if you are very careful with degree selection you could do without. It is a common reason for people to change from Economics when they can't do the Maths but if you research well in advance should be OK. You need one ideally with a lot of options and no compulsory maths.