Advice on outstanding State schools around Barnet , Finchley for my Daughter

In any of the schools in the borough with spaces, possibly Laurel (formerly Broomfield)

*lakes rather

Hello! Would be so grateful for any help. We have 2 children and looking potentially to relocate to N21/Lakers estate area.
lots of confusion about secondary school attachment! Can I ask, if kids don’t get into Southgate or winchmore, where does Enfield council allocate them?! Thanku sooooo much!!

I wouldn’t dismiss Henrietta on the basis of the Ofsted rating alone. It’s an excellent school, and when my daughter was offered a place we were absolutely over the moon. she’s now in Year 9 and thriving there.

Thank you

It was a while ago now, but I did hear some suggestions that behaviour could be an issue. That was 7 years ago though, so could have changed completely.

And has 3000 applicants for 90 places.

Would you mind sharing what you heard about Mill Hill county high?

But @PreplexJ - I’m not saying your facts are false - I’m saying it’s a false assumption to suggest those intake stats mean anything about the school itself, when there are so many reasons why a child might choose one school over another. Think about it - my eldest just did his UCAS form - you put down 5 university choices there. His entire year just did the same. You might well find a uni among them that’s no-one’s first choice. Does it necessarily follow that particular uni is ‘worse’ than the other ones? Of course it doesn’t! It’s a silly argument!

Ofsted - personally I think it’s a blunt tool. I know schools get downgraded for various reasons which may or may not be relevant to pupils and parents. Again, it’s about interpreting things sensibly and making an informed judgement.

It seems you’re reacting to anyone who dares to presume that a highly competitive grammar that consistently gets among the best results in the UK probably is a pretty decent school. Like I’ve said, results aren’t everything, the school is known to be highly pressured, and it may or may not be the right environment for everyone. But to suggest it’s terrible based on who takes up places (or not), Reddit posts and a downgraded ofsted rating is really misguided and unhelpful for the OP imo.

@lookbook321 false/made up to heavily imply that intake stats

I didn’t make any of this up — the intake statistics and Ofsted ratings ARE LATEST factual information.

I also mentioned that these families received offers, visited the schools, and likely spoke with teachers and students to make more informed decisions. These are all reasonable assumptions. One can certainly use this as a point of reference, reflecting how a group of parents consistently perceive the school year after year. Any sensible prospective parent would take that into account too.

I also acknowledged that for these families the decision to choose other schools can be influenced by many factors — possibly some of those you mentioned above, but by no means a minor proportion. However, at the very least, these parents weighed those factors and decided what seemed most suitable for their children, even we knew their children are academically strong. So to my initial response to someone comments on "could get more outstanding than HB" I think I gave enough counter points.

I don’t understand why you view such logical choices and factual information as negative or made up.

It won’t be the right choice for some girls, but might well be the right choice for others.

Well then I'm not sure what you defending against all along.

@PreplexJ - I think it’s false/made up to heavily imply that intake stats for a school suggest something negative about a school. Girls who get offers for HB will likely get offers from several schools as they’ll be super bright, and they’ll then make a choice at that stage as to where they go. That doesn’t SAY anything concrete about the actual education within the school - because those girls haven’t yet been educated there! They may decide they want co-ed or somewhere that offers particular sports or somewhere the commute is less - so many personal factors influence school choice at that age.

Equally, if a school consistently gets top results and dozens into Oxbridge each year - as HB does, there’s your ‘evidence’, look at the league tables! - one can safely call that school ‘academic’.

That doesn’t mean it’s a ‘better’ school or a nicer school or whatever - indeed results aren’t everything as I already said, and it’s well known that HB is academically pressured. It won’t be the right choice for some girls, but might well be the right choice for others. I’m sure the OP and her daughter can make an informed choice…

My kids are/have been at Archer which is excellent, but I don't think you'll get in from Mill Hill, we were lucky to get in from Finchley Central.
Mill Hill County was on list for our oldest, good for arts/music but have heard varied things about it
DH's niece and nephew are at Compton and seem to be doing very well there.

@lookbook321 which stuff I mentioned in the thread you consider as "make up"

Everything I mentioned above is based on quoted sources and official statistics (Ofsted rating/FOI on school admission info/former students comment on reddit). Your accusation that I’m making things up is completely baseless.

What evidence you comment back up your view in this thread ? None

Also I disagree with your view that 'one could fairly say that one environment is more academic than another,' because that’s not how I define what makes a school academic. Any school that consistently selects students competitively at intake will find it hard not to get good exam results, i doubt you can find any exception.

However, this alone doesn't make it an academic environment. An academic school is defined not just by outcomes, but by a culture that values intellectual curiosity, depth of learning, high-quality teaching, and meaningful academic challenge. It actively nurtures students’ thinking -

Mediocre teaching and simply leaving students to study under pressure on their own doesn’t sound academic to me at all.

Finally @PreplexJ - you’ve obviously got some kind of issue with HB as a school. But quoting someone from a Reddit forum or making a weird assumption based on entrance stats isn’t particularly helpful for the OP. All schools are different and all schools will have their pros and cons. But if you have an environment that’s purely academically selective, and consistently gets better results- one would fairly say that one environment is more academic than another!

More academic and top results doesn’t necessarily make for a better educational experience- it’s well known how pressured HB is. But let’s not just make stuff up because of some personal beef!

@Moominmammacat - I know a fair few DAO families and without getting into loads of maths, it is quite a bit easier to get in ‘via Islington’ than it is from the more standard route. Simply put, they HAVE to take 20 kids from Islington so not counting siblings, they will be taking the best (either on academics or music) from a smaller pool. Therefore the competition is less. Not saying it’s not still competitive…but it works to your advantage.

Also on results - I agree with @PreplexJ that results aren’t everything. But don’t think those DAO stats are quite right (I think last year it was 85 percent not 92?) and there’s quite a significant difference with GCSE results. But you’d expect this as DAO is partially non selective whereas HB is a wholly selective grammar…

95% A*-B at A level at HB and 92% at Owen's ... not that different. I think there are 20 Islington places, with 200+ Islington applications. There are 22 places for catchment, 10 for music and 65 for entrance exam. Around 800 applications.

@lookbook321 You're fixated on results, but the fact is that a sizable number of girls—who not only passed the entrance exam but also live within the catchment area—choose other schools over this one, year after year. That suggests these highly academic girls clearly believe there are more important aspects to education than simply attending the most selective school in the country. Some of them may well choose schools with characteristics similar to Fortismere.

You mentioned that DAO is partially selective. By definition, its public exam results won't be directly comparable to those of fully selective schools. However, that doesn’t mean the school is any less academic. It may well have more academically qualified teachers or a stronger academic environment - though I’m not necessarily saying that’s the case with DAO.

Your assumption—that a school is 'academic' is fundamentally flawed. Your comment about it being 'nowhere near as academic' seems to rely entirely on the selectivity of the intake. But on an individual level, many students can and do perform at a similar or even higher academic levels in a less selective intake basis.

I am quoting a comment from my link above,

"We all did well, not because of the teaching, which was lacking, but because we were naturally all quite intelligent and all perfectionists. Interesting to see that the culture was maintained..."

Perhaps this is the kind of 'academic' environment you're referring to. If so, it's certainly not one I would recommend. And most likely, the families of academically inclined children who chose other schools over HB wouldn't see this as a good academic environment either.

@PreplexJ - not fixated on results, but if the OP’s daughter is highly academic then it’s probably going to be a better option for her than, say, Fortismere - and you seem to be suggesting something negative about HB based on something that’s questionable. It doesn’t make sense to judge a school based on pupils who make a decision not to go to a school - a lot of girls might sit 5 or more entrance tests and have 5 or more offers, so…

Anyway, OP - another thing to flag on accuracy here is that Dame Alice Owen’s is only partially selective, it also works like a normal school with a catchment and standard criteria - though the catchment is tiny and it’s very oversubscribed. It’s a good school - nowhere near as academic as HB 😉 - but very nice from what I’ve heard. Also if you happen to live in Islington, or your dd goes to school in Islington, it’s easier to get in…

@lookbook321 The kind of girls that get offers from HB will get offers from multiple schools…they’ll take their pick

Sure, a sizable number choose other schools over the one nearby. Not necessarily for the same reasons but that is what they chose.

Why are you so fixated on public exam results when the school admits students through one of the most selective entrance exams to begin with? Any school that works this way is bound to produce outstanding public exam results — but most schools operate based on a broader educational ethos not academic selection to catch some nonsense attentions.

If you trust the fancy word Good Schools Guide provides more than open forums, then I don’t see why you’d care about Mumsnet discussion at all.

@PreplexJ - but why are you so fixated that there’s some kind of sinister ‘reason’ for those year 7 entry stats? The kind of girls that get offers from HB will get offers from multiple schools…they’ll take their pick , which would explain the numbers.

I don’t have kids at HB by the way, and I’m of course aware it can be pressured! But also, I’d trust the Good Schools Guide and their outstanding results over Reddit forums too…

@lookbook321

You can’t judge a school over how many people choose to go there or not! they wouldn’t have experience of the school yet.

You certainly can, especially when the families passed the test, lived within 3 miles, applied to the schools, and ultimately chose not to attend.

These families who held offers are usually more involved further in the process and have deeper insight into the schools than many parents seeking information blindly on Mumsnet.

They received offers, visited the schools, and likely spoke with more teachers and students to make a more informed decision. One can definitely use this as a point of reference, based on how a group of parents perceive the school and this is consistent year after year.

When I pointed out that Ofsted downgraded the school to 'Good' three years ago — contrary to someone earlier referring to it as 'Outstanding' — some people said it didn’t make sense. That’s why I shared more statistics to clarify.

When you said I was being negative, you're always welcome to share some statistics or personal experience to show how 'positive' it is — rather than just saying, like some did earlier in the thread, that it's 'outstanding' without offering any real substance..

you were saying ‘80 percent of girls go elsewhere for sixth form’ or something -

I believe the actual number is around 30% and it is growing in recent years. If you want to know the stats.

If you're interested in some recent student reviews of the school, I can provide you with a few references as well.

https://www.reddit.com/r/sixthform/comments/1e1p63m/should_i_go_to_henrietta_barnett_for_sixth_form/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=mweb3x&utm_name=mweb3xcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

@PreplexJ - but it doesn’t make a whole load of sense if you’re using that stat to reflect something negative about the school? No idea why people would be turning down places down post-offer - but it wouldn’t really be primarily due to the school at that stage, because they wouldn’t have experience of the school yet?!

It would be different if you were saying ‘80 percent of girls go elsewhere for sixth form’ or something - then you’d rightly ask what that says - but you can’t judge a school over how many people choose to go there or not!

@Suisan07 do you live in that area or are you wanting to relocate so are looking for school recommendations to help with your property search. Do you need to be in a particular area?

You haven't given much information in your post. What is your dd like? Is she academics, sporty, creative or have any additional needs? Any info will help people to tailor their advice rather than giving random information.

@lookbook321

Let’s stick to facts rather than prejudice. If a school is truly ‘outstanding’ and reasonably close—say, within 3 miles—then why do around 30% + of girls who pass the entrance exam (most of them likely with tutoring) consistently reject the offer year after year? There must be a reason why some families would rather pay private school fees or go to other comprehensive school they think deem to be more suitable than send their children there.

Well, then tell me — how do you judge a school as 'outstanding'? Certainly not by public exam results if the school only admits students through a super-competitive entrance exam to begin with.