Move or private school?

EmsRob · 2025-03-30T12:23:12+00:00

I’m sure this topic has been discussed several times, but I’m interested in people’s insights and experience on whether to spend money on private school or move house. We have a decent family home in a nice suburban area but would ideally like a bit more space, bigger garden and quieter location. Our mortgage is currently quite small. Our current house is less than a 10min walk to our kids’ primary school (currently year 3 and reception) - we like the school and our children are happy there so we don’t want to move them from this school if we move, which obviously restricts distance. We don’t mind a drive but with my youngest still in reception we are talking many years of driving back and forth so probably max 20-30min drive. Our other issue is secondary schools as we live in a 11+ area. Currently, we live right between two highly competitive grammars (one girls and one boys). Our eldest is doing ok at school, but she’s probably dyslexic and not overly academic so we don’t think she would get in to the girls grammar and it probably wouldn’t be the right environment for her. But we don’t have a great selection of state comps nearby. The only state comps we are guaranteed are pretty poorly performing. There is one that is doing ok, which she might get into, but that is a gamble and it’s still below national averages. We have therefore been looking at some private schools that cater to all abilities. I think my daughter would thrive at some of these as she’s more into extra curricular activities, which they have excellent facilities for. She’s also quite shy so can be a bit forgotten in large state classes and a smaller class size would probably suit her. It is too early to know what will suit my son, but any calculations on private school costs we are assuming will be for him too as I’d like to give them the same opportunity. Having had our house valued and having looked around for what we want, plus cost of stamp duty, moving will double the size of our mortgage - and therefore probably rules out private school as well as lumping us with a big mortgage. But moving doesn’t necessarily solve the state school problem as we would be looking to stay close enough to get back to the primary school for my son, meaning we would still be in an 11+ area - so although we could pick somewhere a bit closer to an ok state comp, there are no guarantees. My question is would you move to the house / location you want a bit closer to an ok to state comp or would you stay put and pay for private school?

Original poster

EmsRob · 31/03/2025 12:26

cantkeepawayforever · 31/03/2025 11:02

How stable are the private schools? Obviously these will not be the ‘high prestige, high fee, highly selective’ type that will emerge unscathed from the current VAT / NI / cost of living pressures. Are those that you are considering

Full
Have stable or growing rolls over the last 5+ years
If you can access them, have healthy-looking accounts?
Willing to be open about how many children are leaving at times other than end of Y11, and are filling these occasional vacancies promptly?

While the debate about VAT on fees is for another place, it is clear that current financial pressures of all kinds are exerting a ‘selection pressure’ on the private schools sector at the moment, which the more robust will withstand. Just take care that the ‘small classes’ that attract you don’t in fact mean ‘financial vulnerability due to falling rolls’.

That's a good point - thanks

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babymaybebaby · 31/03/2025 11:19

Good point re rolls & viability @cantkeepawayforever

cantkeepawayforever · 31/03/2025 11:02

How stable are the private schools? Obviously these will not be the ‘high prestige, high fee, highly selective’ type that will emerge unscathed from the current VAT / NI / cost of living pressures. Are those that you are considering

Full
Have stable or growing rolls over the last 5+ years
If you can access them, have healthy-looking accounts?
Willing to be open about how many children are leaving at times other than end of Y11, and are filling these occasional vacancies promptly?

While the debate about VAT on fees is for another place, it is clear that current financial pressures of all kinds are exerting a ‘selection pressure’ on the private schools sector at the moment, which the more robust will withstand. Just take care that the ‘small classes’ that attract you don’t in fact mean ‘financial vulnerability due to falling rolls’.

Original poster

EmsRob · 31/03/2025 10:49

Thanks @cantkeepawayforever and @GoatCatTaco helpful posts.

We have done a LOT of research and are doing this very much with what would be good for our daughter in mind.

I've paid for websites that give you all the school data and have an excel with all the data, including progress 8 and attainment scores. But for me the best data I'm drawing conclusions from are staff turnover, happiness rating from parents and percentage of pupils regularly absent. We also speak to people about their experience a lot, I'm from this area so I know a lot about the local schools (maybe too much...).

We have also started visiting any school that we would consider on paper. We haven't got round all of them yet, but a significant proportion.

The only non grammar state we are guaranteed to get entry to without moving is pretty shocking in terms of social issues and requires improvement - its far, far below average and not somewhere I would ever consider.

We've looked at others that are better, still negative progress scores about 20-25% regularly absent, but as you say are probably not better performing because of the grammar factor.

I am considering these specifically with my daughter in mind - I know she requires extra support to reach her academic potential, is naturally shy and so gets easily lost in large class sizes (and often doesn't quite qualify for extra support as she just about makes the expected level), she is a hard worker but compares herself to others way too much, she has a natural flair for art and is sporty so we would like a school with decent facilities for these.

For varying reasons I've been disappointed in all but one state school that we have visited but found private ones we like. Th one state we like is an all girls so to move for that one still leaves us in a pickle for my son.

So after a lot of research we have been left with a choice based on the needs of our daughter. Stay where we are and pay private where I think she will thrive in a smaller class size and her talents for art and sport will flourish or move and accept a school where she'll probably do ok, but not reach her full potential.

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cantkeepawayforever · 31/03/2025 10:27

I didn’t mention in my PP, but recuitment and retention of high quality staff can also be an issue in secondary moderns in fully selective counties. This is especially the case because many of such counties are expensive places to live, with many alternative employment options, so the national teacher recruitment and retention crisis is tending to bite harder there.

Secondary moderns - high levels of deprivation compared with the general population; high levels of SEN; on average lower parental engagement; lower status in the eyes of society; insufficient funding to meet needs; usually no sixth form teaching; very few high ability pupils so even ‘top set’ will be a very wide range of abilities: these are not necessarily workplaces that attract the ‘brightest, best and most ambitious’ of the teaching profession. They may well have attracted some selfless, caring, empathetic teachers with excellent behaviour management and SEN expertise BUT as teaching generally has become harder and harder, these are the very teachers who burn out and leave / become ill, especially in the face of a society that still dismisses their workplaces as ‘below average’ with no appreciation of the context.

Monvelo · 31/03/2025 10:23

I do know what you mean @EmsRob . Our choice is a large secondary which is requires improvement offset due to poor send support and reading progress (just what DD needs being dyslexic), has issues with bullying (yr 7 being targeted by yr10 recently), a new ish head and joined a large MAT from some distance away, cue 37 teachers leaving in 2 years, issues recruiting etc. Or a very small secondary some distance away that we might or might not get into, depending.

Original poster

EmsRob · 31/03/2025 10:17

Monvelo · 30/03/2025 21:13

You've said the secondary options are average / slightly below. In what way? Exam results are one thing but if they are well set up for dyslexia with good classroom scaffolding and well trained teachers with a low turnover, so we don't have to battle for everything, and a nice cohort of kids, then they might be great for your DD.

I'm in a similar situation as you with dyslexic DD in yr5, grammar schools, and only one secondary here which is not great.

I've tracked attainment 8 and progress scores, as well as staff turnover, level of absence and percentage of turnover on SENCO as well as reading the school's SENCO reports. We've also visited the schools.

There was one school that we wouldn't have normally got in to, but this year we would, it is still significantly below national averages on the above criteria but I would consider it even though it is on a downward trend (which is why we would have got in this year). So we went to look at it and tbh I was a bit shocked by the quality of staff when I spoke with them.

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SheilaFentiman · 31/03/2025 09:50

You might need to revisit your £30k pa per child including transport estimate also. My fees (incl Vat) will be over 26k for next academic year and they will go up by 3% plus inflation the following academic year. 5-10% annual fee rises pre VAT were quite common across the country so please bear that in mind when looking at the lifetime cost for both kids.

RedSkyDelights · 31/03/2025 09:35

I agree with PPs that if you are in a grammar area, then the secondary moderns (not comprehensives), by definition, will be below average. You need to dig into the detail a lot more to understand how results measure up to intake, and understand what their pastoral and SEN support is like.

With your list of priorities it sounds as though you would be best to move reasonably locally to somewhere that gives you as high a chance of possible of getting into one of the secondary moderns you would deem acceptable. This is a good idea anyway - you can never be absolutely sure your children will get into grammar school, and your youngest especially is too young to know.

clary · 31/03/2025 09:26

Good posts from @cantkeepawayforever and @GoatCatTaco

Op I see why you don’t want to move away from the grammar area but agree, it’s worth looking at possible sec mods to see how your DD would fare.

cantkeepawayforever · 31/03/2025 08:58

The point here is that you live in an 11+ area. That means - by definition- that one school takes ‘above average’ students and others take ‘at/below average’ students.

Schools’ results, to a first approximation, reflect their intake. Ofsted grades, to a depressingly large extent (the most recent inspection framework slightly mitigated this but not entirely), reflect results and therefore intake.

So you are being illogical in asking for a non-grammar in a grammar area (not a comprehensive - think about what that word means) that is ‘above average’ in terms of results. A moment of reflection will tell you that’s not possible.

For reasons connected to the different socio-economic mix of grammars / non-grammars, as well as the distribution of SEN and associated costs, non-grammars will find it harder to have good progress 8 and will tend to have lower reputations in the surrounding community. They may well, however, provide an expertise in your child’s SEN and provide an appropriate curriculum that a selective school may not.

Rather than seeking a thing that cannot exist - a school that has a lower-than-comprehensive intake for the area but achieves above average results - you should probably visit the schools your child uses most likely to get a place at, and judge for yourself as settings for her. Ask staff at her current school where children with her profile have thrived. Ask local groups / online communities for their views, for a child with her profile.

If you cannot find a place where you believe your child will ‘fit’, then private is probably be the best way forward, as the structural problem that non-grammars in full 11+ areas are not ‘above average’ (and will disproportionately have a more deprived and higher needs cohort than the grammars in the same catchment) will be the same in all surrounding 11+ areas too.

GoatCatTaco · 31/03/2025 08:51

In what way are the schools below average?
If you are looking at average exam grade, yes, they are likely to be below national average, because all the grade 8 and 9 kids have been scooped into the grammar schools.
What do they look like on progress 8? ie how well do they do with the intake they are given, rather than an assumed average (non grammar area) intake? For your daughter, how well do they do with SEN kids?
You need to look at more than the headline figures.

Original poster

EmsRob · 31/03/2025 07:19

babymaybebaby · 30/03/2025 21:05

I personally wouldn't choose to send my dc to a below average school. But it depends on the child.

Whether private school is worth it depends on the school itself & in your case what you want to prioritise.

I'm surprised a nice area doesn't have at least one good state option though. Tuition is quite common in private schools as well so you may still pay for that.

As I said we moved about 25mins away (not just for schools) but fees here are 30k a yr now & will go up every year so for 2 dc we could well end up paying 400k plus. For us it made sense to put that money into a house, early retirement, dc's uni & house deposits. But my dc are pretty academic & I can pay for a lot of extracurriculars locally so private whilst having value didn't have enough value for the outlay. Plus we have very good state options.

There is one decent girls schools in an area, it’s not the countryside as we would like but the area is nice so we are considering it, but unfortunately that doesn’t help anything for our son…

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Original poster

EmsRob · 31/03/2025 07:14

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 30/03/2025 18:28

Your DD has another 3 years at primary school, you might be surprised how a state school can change in that time. I don’t think you need to make a decision just yet. You also don’t know if she actually is dyslexic or not. I’d stay where you are. Get your DD assessed for dyslexia so you know for sure. Then I’d get her a tutor in Y4 and find out whether she could get into the grammar school - a good tutor will tell you honestly whether she’s capable or not. If grammar school isn’t right for her and the state school hasn’t improved, then you could consider private.

I thought to get into a state school then we have to be living in the house we apply from for a year before applying? Or maybe that’s if you’re renting? But if that’s right, we would need to be in by early year 5. So considering the time it can take to move it feels we need to be going on the market now to be safe.
I don’t know she is dyslexic true, but we and school suspect because of how she’s doing at school, so even if she isn’t then she is still struggling with some things.

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Monvelo · 30/03/2025 21:13

You've said the secondary options are average / slightly below. In what way? Exam results are one thing but if they are well set up for dyslexia with good classroom scaffolding and well trained teachers with a low turnover, so we don't have to battle for everything, and a nice cohort of kids, then they might be great for your DD.

I'm in a similar situation as you with dyslexic DD in yr5, grammar schools, and only one secondary here which is not great.

babymaybebaby · 30/03/2025 21:11

I wasn’t saying this is what it costs to buy a house near a good state though - you can get a family home near decent state schools in our area for less than our budget.

How far away are the good state schools? You could rent near it, get one dc in and then move to where you actually want to live.

babymaybebaby · 30/03/2025 21:05

I personally wouldn't choose to send my dc to a below average school. But it depends on the child.

Whether private school is worth it depends on the school itself & in your case what you want to prioritise.

I'm surprised a nice area doesn't have at least one good state option though. Tuition is quite common in private schools as well so you may still pay for that.

As I said we moved about 25mins away (not just for schools) but fees here are 30k a yr now & will go up every year so for 2 dc we could well end up paying 400k plus. For us it made sense to put that money into a house, early retirement, dc's uni & house deposits. But my dc are pretty academic & I can pay for a lot of extracurriculars locally so private whilst having value didn't have enough value for the outlay. Plus we have very good state options.

Original poster

EmsRob · 30/03/2025 20:45

babymaybebaby · 30/03/2025 20:27

Reading your update I'm not really sure what you are asking.

You don't want to move more than 30mins away.
If you do move you cant access better state schools anyway.
Moving means you may not be able to afford fees plus a bigger mortgage.
You don't think grammar is the right environment for your dc.
Surely the only option that is acceptable to you is to stay put & pay private?

Or move and send them to an average / slightly below average state comp and perhaps pay for some private tuition.

Or see if we get into the ok state comp near us and then move.

I guess I’m wondering if private is really worth the money and sacrificing having the house and location we want to live in.

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Original poster

EmsRob · 30/03/2025 20:42

babymaybebaby · 30/03/2025 20:19

@EmsRob

why would you be paying plus circa £100k on stamp duty.?

Sorry should have said circa £40-50k on stamp duty. The total extra borrowing we’re looking at is £200-300k but I broke it down wrong.

I wasn’t saying this is what it costs to buy a house near a good state though - you can get a family home near decent state schools in our area for less than our budget.

But we would like to move to a slightly more expensive area and have the house or our dreams, but if we did that we couldn’t afford private school and we don’t leave a grammar area, so is it worth moving or should we stay put.

We could move within our area for a similar house to we have now closer to a good school - but that’s still an expensive option with stamp duty and the fact you’d want to decorate etc. And it wouldn’t be where we want to live so we will end up moving again for the house and location we do want once the school is secure, meaning throwing even more money away on stamp duty long term. But that is the other option.

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Original poster

EmsRob · 30/03/2025 20:40

error

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babymaybebaby · 30/03/2025 20:27

Reading your update I'm not really sure what you are asking.

You don't want to move more than 30mins away.
If you do move you cant access better state schools anyway.
Moving means you may not be able to afford fees plus a bigger mortgage.
You don't think grammar is the right environment for your dc.
Surely the only option that is acceptable to you is to stay put & pay private?

babymaybebaby · 30/03/2025 20:19

@EmsRob

why would you be paying plus circa £100k on stamp duty.?

Original poster

EmsRob · 30/03/2025 19:58

JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 30/03/2025 18:28

Your DD has another 3 years at primary school, you might be surprised how a state school can change in that time. I don’t think you need to make a decision just yet. You also don’t know if she actually is dyslexic or not. I’d stay where you are. Get your DD assessed for dyslexia so you know for sure. Then I’d get her a tutor in Y4 and find out whether she could get into the grammar school - a good tutor will tell you honestly whether she’s capable or not. If grammar school isn’t right for her and the state school hasn’t improved, then you could consider private.

I don’t feel our local grammar would be the right environment for her, even if she got in.

Other grammars we live out of area from from so she’d need a very high score to get in. Being realistic about her academic abilities, even with a LOT of tutoring, I know that is very unlikely for her. So again we’d probably have to move.

I don’t really need a tutor to tell me what I already know.

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Original poster

EmsRob · 30/03/2025 19:50

babymaybebaby · 30/03/2025 17:51

Where do you live that houses near good state schools are 1.5m?! We are in London & moved from inner to outer, cheaper then private & more space.

I don’t think I said they were. That’s way more than our budget. I said 1.5hrs away from my work - not sure if you read that wrong?

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JustGotToKeepOnKeepingOn · 30/03/2025 18:28

Your DD has another 3 years at primary school, you might be surprised how a state school can change in that time. I don’t think you need to make a decision just yet. You also don’t know if she actually is dyslexic or not. I’d stay where you are. Get your DD assessed for dyslexia so you know for sure. Then I’d get her a tutor in Y4 and find out whether she could get into the grammar school - a good tutor will tell you honestly whether she’s capable or not. If grammar school isn’t right for her and the state school hasn’t improved, then you could consider private.