Candidates flying from overseas to sit super-selective grammar 11+

https://schoolsweek.co.uk/grammar-schools-ratings-topple-as-new-ofsted-regime-bites/

“Grammar schools have been significantly more successful than previously ‘outstanding’ schools in general in retaining the highest inspection grading.”
According to the latest Ofsted data, of 390 previously outstanding schools inspected since September, 109, or 28 per cent, retained their full outstanding grade. This compares with 36 per cent of grammars.

So, they still “won” on relative terms @Dtnews
That was the hardest inspection regime you were referring to. Would you like to comment on the downgrades of other schools, relatively speaking or is that yet another “fact” you conveniently left out?

Last time I checked, parents are still desperate to get into eg Latymer regardless of the Good and not Outstanding. People are not stupid you know, anecdotes on the ground are far more helpful in the real world than your pseudo science and data.

Oh, but I think your view is heavily skewed, as it significantly differs from that of many of my acquaintances who happen also to be middle-class professionals in London. Therefore, whatever you or I say on anecdotes is not particularly useful. We need to return to the fundamentals—scientific evidence, research, and data—which you clearly choose to ignore.

Percentage-wise, grammar schools account for only 5% of all schools. In the latest inspection, 66% of them were downgraded—clearly, clinging to the past is unhelpful.

In absolute numbers, only 25 grammar schools are currently rated 'Outstanding, by the latest inspection, a figure that pales in comparison to the 830 comprehensive schools with the same rating. From an economic perspective, it is evidently more beneficial to focus on increasing the number of good or outstanding comprehensive schools.

It also seems you lack confidence in the resources and management of your 'outstanding' grammar schools, believing they would inevitably be downgraded if grammar status were abolished. I wonder why that might be.

No my demographic is not skewed and I did not just dream that the Bank of England cannot lower interest rates either.

80 per cent of grammars were outstanding in 2021 according to Schools Week, compared to under 20 per cent of non grammars - outstanding schools get inspected less frequently. The ones inspected under the new more stringent regime may have been downgraded just like other schools.
The percentage of outstanding is STILL far higher and you are stuck with that label now under yet another set of Ofsted reforms.

That is my demographic of middle class professional living in London

Perhaps your demographic is somewhat skewed towards certain beliefs and is not a typical representation of middle-class professionals in London at all.

all I am saying is that educational policy MUST follow the economics. It is not controversial.

True economics is, FORTUNATELY, rooted in evidence, models, and proper research - not the 'economics' you choose to believe in..

82% of all state-funded secondary schools are rated 'Good' or 'Outstanding,' which amounts to approximately 3,500 schools. In comparison, there are only 163 grammar schools remaining in England, and some of them have even been rated 'Inadequate' by Ofsted.

Notably, 66% of 'Outstanding' grammar schools inspected in 2022 were downgraded.

And all I am saying is that educational policy MUST follow the economics. It is not controversial.
Our children have experienced huge disruption during Covid and now some ideologues want even more disruption for them against a backdrop of a terribly challenging economic climate. No thanks, bad timing, too risky. Jog on.

I clearly said everyone I know personally moves house and makes housing purchases (or enters into rental contracts) with a clear view on their children’s educational path. That is my demographic of middle class professional living in London. And I specifically linked that article for you because it talks about middle class dinner party chatter, I thought you might enjoy that. Clearly you do not.
Seems like others did take heed of the anecdotes - many years ago at that.

Why do you not go look up the ratings by Ofsted of grammar schools and compare them to comprehensives and then report back to me.

Or do you know better than Ofsted now? Would you like to abolish them as well?

House prices are linked to good schools - not the 5% of grammar schools, some of them not even good. The more good schools there are, the stronger the economy becomes.

Basic fact, There are 600,000 students in England every year transfer to secondary school.

If "everyone" move and assuming 50% of them buying and selling house for the move. This will result in 300K housing transaction a year... The whole England residential property is merely 1 million per year, now someone is claiming 30% of them is due to attending secondary schools.....

Doesn't sound right at all.... People move house for all sorts of reasons..

It is not even new news! House prices are linked to schools. Education policy needs to take account of that. Given we are reliant on the solvency of banks, mortgages etc stop being so obtuse. Given the stagflation, the issues with interest rates coming down you ideologies are very very risky for all of us @Dtnews

blogs.lse.ac.uk/politicsandpolicy/school-house-prices-gibbons/#author

I can sense the attitude here. Regardless of the type of research or studies, if the outcome doesn’t align with someone beliefs, they willl be quick to dismiss it and fall back on citing 'everyone' they know and their anecdotes as the true. Everything they believe seems to contradict the evidence.

I think it’s time for someone to seriously reflect on where the real issue lies!

Someone could study it by for example, studying the change in applications in percentage terms following a change in Ofsted inspections. Just an idea. It is a thing in the South East, for sure and it has a large impact on house prices and people’s sentiments are linked to the notional value of their house price (even if it is a theoretical value). And it does impact voting patterns. Why else are all parties constantly propping up house prices? They know that is how the great British public vote.
So when the academic ideologies come along who have no concept of real world economics and the financial markets etc, I really think they need to inform themselves slightly better.

I'm sure that is your experience but it still isn't evidence of this being a thing nationally - I guess it depends very much where you live in UK. I am sure there are people out there who can afford the money and stress of moving just to get into an outstanding school, but I haven't come across anyone local to me who has done that for secondary school.

@Araminta1003 I can't speak for my acquaintances as to be honest it's not the kind of question I would ask them - It would feel a bit too nosy. I would guess you haven't asked all your acquaintances and you're just generalising and guessing.

Most of my friends biggest consideration was house prices and location in terms how close to where you work and family. Yes they might have thought of school but primary rather than secondary as a lot can change from you have child and they start secondary school. And no one in my friendship circle has been able to afford to move house just to access a better secondary school that is for sure.

Or the whole of the Mumsnet Education board, the concept of itself and the traffic on it, is evidence. Will that do or not scientific enough for you? Typically you can follow the money for evidence in the real world.

The evidence is all over pretty much marketing of estate agents, all publicly available. If nobody cares, why would they possibly comment on it? Why have people invented school finder apps and made millions out of them selling them to eg Rightmove?
The evidence is in the economics. Plainly available if you bother to look.

@privatenonamegiven - so your friends and acquaintances do not consider schooling when purchasing a house or flat in the first place? Not at all?… You must be a very different demographic to the one I move in. In my demographic, type of house etc seems to feature as importantly as access to education, if they have children that is. That applies to colleagues, friends and acquaintances.

everyone I personally know moves for secondary schools, one way or another.

Oh well it must be true 😂...come on this isn't evidence. Everyone I know does not move for secondary...

The likes of Laura Trott in Sevenoaks where the managed to open grammar annexes are not suddenly going to bend over backwards for Labour ideology. One way for Labour to lose the Home Counties once and for all, would probably be a Lorded over from the top abolition of grammars with no local consultation. But some of you go ahead in your echo chambers.