Flooding of state schools by ex indie students fails to materialise

I don’t see why private schools were exempt from VAT in the first place - it’s not like they were really charities (benefiting those in need of help) - there is a free education available for all.
Our local private school rents out its swimming pool to swim schools- you can pay for lessons there, but otherwise does zilch for the community. I really can’t see how they ever were considered proper charities.
I think the removal of the VAT exemption is the right thing to do - they are businesses providing a luxury service.

@meuntilmarch2025 even prior to VAT increases, I considered holding on to our state place for a few months, because you never know about redundancy etc etc. Nothing to do with feeling victimised.

7% (over 1 in 20 children) at any one time, the number who go at some point in their education is higher. I have read various figures for that, the lowest being 10% (1 in 10) and the highest 28% (nearly 1 in 3) (I wonder if the latter includes early years?). The percentage varies by area of the country.

I am always surprised when people see these as small numbers/tiny proportions.

Tbh I think this is one reason why some states are so good, parents are pretty invested.

Some of the raffle prizes at my friends primary are insane! One of my friends schools did a fundraising for an extra minibus. About 5 parents just gave thousands.

Taxing earned income (at a high level) is seen as "penalising initiative" and "stifling growth" and "edging towards socialism" etc etc by certain commentators. It's exactly the kind of criticism that the Labour party is desperate to deflect, to show they're not that kind of party any more; you won't get anywhere in politics nowadays with the old-style leftie Socialist Worker rallying cries. So they try to tax the privileges that wealth brings rather than the wealth itself.

That's exactly what I meant but you said it much better @zaxxon

The school will no doubt benefit from having parents invested in their children’s education when children go state but they’re dreaming if they think there is any chance parents are suddenly going to give the money they spent on fees to state schools.

I suppose it depends on the parents. Our state schools raises thousands because contrary to the narrative plenty of state families have money & are invested in their dcs education.

If state schools get an influx of stockbrokers' kids over the next few years, it might boost their coffers considerably.

🤣🤣🤣
When my children move to the state sector, I will be cutting my working hours because I don’t need to fund school fees. The money we do have from my income will go towards tutoring, extra curricular, pension and holidays.

The school will no doubt benefit from having parents invested in their children’s education when children go state but they’re dreaming if they think there is any chance parents are suddenly going to give the money they spent on fees to state schools.

A much higher percentage of children in France go to private school than in the UK.

Only 7% of children go to private school in the UK and 58% of private schools in the UK are special schools.

I think people are just doing what they possibly can to keep their children in decent schools to be honest, if it means they have to work longer hours or take on extra work they are doing it. Excluding those who have inherited wealth that is.

If only we had mechanisms for collecting progressive taxes such as income tax, CGT, stamp duty, IHT etc etc.

We already tax high earners pretty high compared to other European countries, how much higher should income tax be? IHT is pretty steep too? Of course increases in some of these things would also impact parents who pay private despite the narrative they are simply frugal.

But everyone isn’t paying their fair share!

Who cares, it's about perception Is that really news to you?

Rich parents actually using state schools for their kids make no additional contribution.

Surely they pay taxes?

I’ll ask again (since none of the supporters of this policy ever answer): why not tax actual wealth rather than using a private education as a proxy for wealth?

I'm not a supporter but it's quite hard to tax the 1%

“First off private schools were being used as a tax loophole, I know multimillionaires who owned schools who didn't give a crap about them or education in general, it was recommended by their accountants that they buy them for tax purposes.”

Errr, even if this was widespread (spoiler alert: it’s not) what does this have to do with the current debate? You do understand that it’s parents of pupils that are being taxed more, not the schools themselves?

“Secondly, how are you going to tax actual wealth without a mechanism to do it through?”

You’re right. If only we had mechanisms for collecting progressive taxes such as income tax, CGT, stamp duty, IHT etc etc.

Oh, hang on a minute…..

🙄

First off private schools were being used as a tax loophole, I know multimillionaires who owned schools who didn't give a crap about them or education in general, it was recommended by their accountants that they buy them for tax purposes.

Secondly, how are you going to tax actual wealth without a mechanism to do it through? People will just funnel money through shell companies or buy yachts offshore and claim they're business expenses. Wealth is also different to money.

On top of that it's also where do you draw the line because you don't know what people's disposable income is. My % of disposable income is extremely high because I live a very modest lifestyle, but someone who owns property in Florida and owns 3 luxury cars and sends their kids to private school could easily have less than me even though they make a lot more.

There has to be something tangible in the middle, like some kind of tax (see also farmers).

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php?title=Secondary_education_statistics#Public_and_private_secondary_education

This is what we're been saying. Hardly anyone at the kids school is leaving and a hand full of pupils can easily be absorbed into local state schools. The vast majority of parents aren't stretching to afford the fees, they are pretty comfortable.

I really dislike these sweeping “most other European countries” assertions.

France, Germany, Belgium and Italy - countries in which I have lived - all have free, academically selective high schools which perform better than most private schools. Most parents with clever NT children choose these schools.

These countries also have private schools catering for a range of other needs. Around 10% of German children for example attend private schools. ie more than in the UK.

If the UK still had grammar schools countrywide many parents who currently choose private schools would opt for grammar schools.

But everyone isn’t paying their fair share!

Rich parents actually using state schools for their kids make no additional contribution.

Those scraping together the fees for their SEND kid to go private (forgoing holidays, a nicer car or whatever) do have to contribute extra when by definition their kids aren’t taking up a state place.

I’ll ask again (since none of the supporters of this policy ever answer): why not tax actual wealth rather than using a private education as a proxy for wealth? Especially given the former could raise enough to make meaningful improvements to state schools when the latter will not.

Those who are able to pay fees without much sacrifice are very likely to be rich, I don't think anyone is disputing that (or ever has).

Those who are not rich will leave and go state and as a result will not be paying fees or vat!

because a small percentage of rich people pay tax on school fees

I thought many weren't rich though & couldn't afford the increase hence the exodus to state?

@morechocolateneededtoday I think more in just when a politician is questioned about X tax increase they can say we've spread the load eg VAT on fees, everyone is paying their fair share etc.

Or Parisians. I have a middle class friend who sent her DCs to private in Paris because the local school was shocking. They weren’t rich. Or thick.

I fail to see how it will make other hikes more palatable though. It has affected such a small number (which is the only reason they have managed to implement it) - the general public are not suddenly going to accept tax hikes because a small percentage of rich people pay tax on school fees