Daughter hating year 7

I have 3 at secondary school, incl one in yr7. I think it’s a very challenging year and one that (ime), primary school does not prepare them for.

One of mine started at “the best” school in the area. He’s bright, sociable but quirky. He did really well at primary, had never been in trouble. Yr7 was a disaster. It became very apparent that the just wanted identikit children, getting great grades and not stepping out of line. He was never NOT in trouble. He was also on the end of low level (not that any is acceptable) bullying for being a bit eccentric (now clear he’s ND).

We / he stuck it out for a year as it does take time to adjust. Then we bit the bullet and moved him to a school with a less stellar reputation and grades that weren’t quite as impressive. BUT it’s amazing pastorally and for SEN. He’s now flourishing in Yr8.

I would make sure you get the full picture, give her support, make sure she recognises that Yr7 IS hard for many many pupils and start considering your options. I would however suggest a bit more time is needed as it’s still very early days in Yr7. I do think that resilience is important for all of us to an extent, but she’s still very young and it’s essential she knows you have her back.

Best of luck!

Nest, forgive typos!

I did feel just like OP but now I realise that kids do need to have a bit of rigour in their lives as the world is not going to genuflect to them is it?

My kids have both had tough times at their schools but I believe it has helped ground them in reality. The world is not designed for their emotional needs; I think they have to become strong enough to meet their own emotional needs (with their loved ones support) whether the outside world is nice or nasty.

Subjecting yourself to some impersonal strictures for the benefit of the group is a bit of a reality check.

Not remembering your ruler doesn't matter but my daughter forgot hers in exams recently three times so we got an email saying that it wasted time in the exam room, so she went and hit a new one and learned to turn up ready for the task.

There are kids who do not suit this style of school. It's an act of faith and instinct on a parent's part to know when a child is being usefully educated or damaged emotionally. I found it hard when my son was young not to try to protect him from everything. I couldn't tolerate him being sad or upset - I now think this didn't help him necessarily. That I needed to separate from him to see what he needed not just feel how I was triggered by his vulnerable.

Not that any of this is easy for many of us.

But I want my kids to be able to fly the best and thrive and that means thef have had to buckle down and accept seemingly pointless rules at times. And take the consequences with grace when they breach them. It's such a good life lesson in a safe space.

@WhatNoRaisins Do parents ever change the ethos of a school? Most will just grumble. Parent governors are not a large group in MATs and don’t influence anything. It’s Heads that do. It would need a massive barrage of complaints from families to get any change at all. These strict schools also get all
the positive publicity. It’s the sheep that follow. I would not know how to prepare my DDs for this type of school either. Luckily they are well
through the other side and I rejoice in the fact our school rules were one side of A5!

@Porcuporpoise Y7 dc are some way off working. Plus the requirements are just a small part of a strict school. There’s way more controlling behaviour than you suggest. If specialist equipment is needed, store it in the classrooms. Teachers all have strategies for dealing with disruptions but that doesn’t need to be done in such a way that the whole school is like a military academy. There’s a middle way. We always shared a ruler if we forgot our own. Teacher would not even know! Who cares if a dc hasn’t got a something they can easily borrow?

From my perspective at least I don't expect any drastic changes by the time my DC reach this age. I've been trying to face up to the reality that I may have to send my children into this environment and what to do for the best.

I do think in the meantime we should be challenging this and asking questions about whether this is the right way to educate young people. I don't think that's enough when your kids are currently in the system. You have to just get them through it.

Except that often things can be changed; but to change them you have to challenge the unreasonable rules and those who enforce them, whether through complaints to governors, contacting media, mobilizing parents etc.

All of these methods, incidentally, mirror the ways that change is achieved in a democratic society. Students should know when and how to deploy them against injustice. It is a critical part of their education as citizens. There are far too many people on this site who think that the purpose of education is to teach children to tolerate abuse from authority figures.

Granted, “obedience schools” do exist, but they are for dogs, not people.

@TizerorFizz I don't know any workplace where low level disruption, chronic lateness or losing track of the equipment you need are tolerated let alone welcomed.
My workplace is pretty relaxed in many ways but we don't tolerate dicking about and not having the required ppe or ignoring safety protocols is a straight to disciplinary offence.

@Porcuporpoise Depends if you think results is the only reason for being at school and that blind obedience is what you want from your dc. I agree a school that is not supporting teachers dealing with disruptive behaviour is not acceptable but schools are there for all dc and making them abide by petty rules is not a reflection on society. It instils fear and discipline via punishment for minor transgressions makes some dc very unhappy. Most of us would never encounter this outside military service. I would not want this for my dc at 11. It’s ok if you actively choose one of these schools but if it’s your only school and you don’t have another one, it truly sucks.

Maybe because it's not wholly unsatisfactory? Or at least the results are not.
My kids spent their primary years waiting around whilst staff dealt with disruptive behaviour. They were sick of it long before secondary and, whilst they thought the rules could be irksome sometimes, they appreciated the calm atmosphere where teachers could teach and kids could learn, and, as they got older, where rules could be relaxed because expectations were clear and students knew not to take the piss.

And yes, in some jobs uniform or ppe can't just be taken off because you feel a bit hot.

It’s resulting in huge numbers being home educated and not fitting in. I’m so lucky my DDs went to schools that had no issues with pupils. Friendly supportive schools. I truly feel for pleasant dc in these military academies. It’s educating dc in subjects but not for life.

However it’s a joke about large classes now! At my primary we had 40 in the class. At secondary 30 in the class. That’s been the case in secondary for decades. I definitely think dc were better behaved then. Not because schools were strict. It was parents who were strict!

I think it's beyond parents as individuals to try and change the system here. Personally I really don't want to send mine to a typical secondary school but this is what we have.

What I mean is we cannot curate a life for them as it has to be their life. So if we intervene too much then they don't learn that things can get better,

I've seen my kids learn a huge amount from very grim situations. I think now that I would haven been wrong to intervene in most of them.

I can only speak from my own experience.

I had a fairly grim education and did poorly at school. I eventually got to uni. I have had a wide range of jobs.
I have been treated well and badly.
Most of these dynamics almost certainly had an element from both sides. I was not always perfect, my bosses were not always perfect.

I feel as if schools need to find a way to operate which suits the largest percentage of the school community.

Teachers needs the kids quiet and compliant with such big classes.

We can't create perfect schools and even the perfect don't suit all kids.

I think school can be a bit strict and home can be fun. They have to learn how to deal with imperfect environments; particularly as our children are not perfect.

They need to learn to deal with the world as it is not as we wish it were.

But should we be accepting this wholly unsatisfactory on behalf of our children and asking them to find coping strategies?

I am not sure this is a good preparation for the adult world.

These boards are full of parents unhappy about unreasonable rules all the time - not being allowed to have a pee, or take off a jacket when it is sweating hot for example. Is that what happens at work? - not at anywhere I have worked for sure.

We are teaching them to not discriminate, which is something they need to learn; and to resent school - what is the point of that?

I wouldn't call it resilience personally, more like teaching coping strategies. When something isn't right but can't be changed you have to try and cope in the least harmful way or find ways to mitigate it.

Moving school can build resilience not just sticking it out somewhere you have to. It's quite brave to make a change.
Adapting to new routines, new teachers and classes and the big one of making new friends and maintaining old friendships. Learning that if you are deeply unhappy, things can change, you're being listened to and things can get better.

Of course life can be tough and we need to help children deal with the vicissitudes - but we need to start by asking whether these challenges are themselves reasonable in the first place.

Some of the rules in secondary schools are not reasonable at all and interfere with education and indeed with humanity. And they teach a mindset that expects rules to be ridiculous and adults to behave in ridiculous ways to enforce them.

How does all this teach respect for co-operation and the need for rules? How does it increase a child's happiness and enthusiasm for education?

We should not each children to resilient to situations that need challenging. We are teaching them to suck it up regardless, rather than the sort of values that are able to judge what makes sense and what does not.

How do these schools think their attitudes are encouraging children to value and enjoy their education? - which is after all their raison d'etre?

Well, what else should we do?

We can't all be on the team, we can't all win the race. If a child can't cope with minor disappointment because we've raised them to think they could and should win everything then we're doing them a disservice.

It's ok to lose and it's okay to teach them to pick themselves up, dust themselves off and try again.

It's not like we're saying ... Beat them harder ...or go and train 5hrs a day. Just learn to accept things, and move on, learn from it and build up your resilience to cope with minor issues and disappointment.

Others we end up with children who grow into teenagers and young adults who get overly anxious about entering exams, who can't ring up to find information out, who will complain about unfairness that they didn't get the job, or dwell in dispair when they don't get into their desired university etc.

You are allowed to raise resilient children who can take small problems in their stride.

Mine too; I would not have said this when my eldest was in year 7!

I have just watched my ds start as a teacher in a big city secondary school; I look back now at all the times he struggled in life and they made him able to withstand the inevitable challenges of life.

I feel as if I eventually found a middle way between apron-strings/overprotection and full on Gordonstoun style brutality!

Every child is particular and responds uniquely to different settings. I think if we always let the child choose aren't we teaching them that difficult things can be avoided?

I would have loved to send my kids to a progressive loving warm nurturing growth mindset school - but we couldn't afford private, and the local state schools were not that kind of gentle.

Having said that, I have found that a school becomes much less forbidding and monolithic once you build relationships with some staff. It changes everything.

I hated every minute of the times when my kids were suffering at school or in a challenging situation, but I now see how it was right not to try to always step in and 'rescue' them when things get hard. I watch them now and they are relatively happy and well adjusted and ready for age appropriate life challenges.

Not that you have to agree with me; it's just it's a life lesson I learned slowly and painfully and also my big sister was always telling me that kids need some struggle in order to keep them for real life.

A good school would be more flexible and understand some dc don’t need this ethos in the first place.

Also, of course all dc don’t end up being at the bottom of the pile! Some are in the many netball teams. Some are shining in the tests. Some will fit in straightaway. It doesn’t take all dc a year to fit in. Others are just not in the right school. No harm looking at others.

The transition from Y6 to Y7 is a tough one. They go from being a big fish in a small pond to being very much bottom of the pile.

I’m a teacher myself and a lot of our focus is on Y11, especially as the year goes on.

You mention the school is “strict” - does this mean the behaviour in class is excellent? Sometimes schools that are less strict have disruption after disruption and learning is constantly interrupted as the students rule the roost.

I would say definitely speak to her head of year. A good school will be supportive and understanding!

I take that to mean help her understand that sometimes things don't go well, but it's not the end of the world. Not that she has to struggle through everything without complaint.
My DD's high school were very keen on promoting the 'growth mindset' to students. This is a healthier way to look at resilience. Bright, conscientious, anxious pupils struggle with perfectionism and need to learn how to 'fail'.

work on her resilience.

This just makes my heart sink. What an attitude to have towards children.

There has been a real shift in recent years to this no tolerance style discipline. It’s filtered over from America. I’m a Secondary School teacher- been doing it 30 years and hate everything about it. I’d never teach in a school like that. Teachers generally have very little autonomy over content and delivery of curriculum so lessons are identikit and dull. The English lessons want to make me weep. Find another school. I’d investigate the girls’ school you mentioned.