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Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

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Original poster

Can a school make Religious Studies GCSE compulsory? Can one withdraw?

207 replies

ParentOfOne · 10/01/2025 17:34

One of the state, non-faith secondary schools we like makes GCSE in Religious Studies compulsory. This is in England.

It is not a deal breaker, but we would like to understand what the rules are.

At the open day, the school said that it's a national requirement. But that's not what the gov uk website says https://www.gov.uk/national-curriculum/key-stage-3-and-4 , and indeed not all schools even offer RS GCSE. So did the school just lie to us? Not a great sign!

So the question becomes: can a school make RS GCSE compulsory, or can parents object?

I am all for kids learning about religions, but my reservations are:

It may be more useful to take other subjects at GCSE; it is still possible to study RS in earlier years without using up a GCSE subject for it
No one can know if our child will grow up to be religious or not, but she is the kind of person who brooks no bullshit. The teaching of RS can be dogmatic in some schools.
It is fine to study other cultures and religious theories and preferences, but we should also call out what is backward and scientifically unfounded - e.g. when the Catholic Church said that the HIV virus can still pass through condoms, or when some fundamentalists think that evolution is wrong.
My concern is therefore twofold: I worry that some of this nonsense might be taught as valid, rather than as un unsubstantiated theory, and I worry that, with her attitude, she would react very badly to the teaching of this nonsense. These concerns are based on the experiences of some friends, in non-faith state schools elsewhere.

The national curriculum

The English national curriculum means children in different schools (at primary and secondary level) study the same subjects to similar standards - it's split into key stages with tests

https://www.gov.uk/national-curriculum/key-stage-3-and-4

OP posts:

Thread gallery

titchy · 10/01/2025 22:05

I entirely agree that religion is mumbo jumbo.

However I find your view that religious girls cannot be 'take no shit' types pretty abhorrent actually. No better than assuming the woman in the hijab has to ask her husbands opinion before she accepts the job, or that the Catholic woman you interview is bound to get pregnant soon. Both assume something about someone solely because of their religion which is what you did.

Ironically RE is one way of divesting such views of people based on their religion.

Anyway this has been an incredibly thoughtful, insightful and helpful thread for you. But you've been rather rude and goady so I'm out.

Original poster

ParentOfOne · 10/01/2025 21:56

@titchy You cannot deny my point about religions still holding backward views, cannot admit that you put words in my mouth, so you feel compelled to i) conclude that my kid parrots my views and ii) to somehow compare the bravery of a pre-adolescent child you don't know to the bravery of the religious lesbians who come out?

You need help. Seriously. Goodbye!

OP posts:

titchy · 10/01/2025 21:50

You made that comment as a response to another poster saying plenty of religious girls take no shit - and that your kid isn't that special in terms of taking no shit.

There are lesbians within all religions - hell of a lot braver for them to come out and risk being ostracised than it is for your kid, with an opinionated parent, to parrot your views.

Magamaga · 10/01/2025 21:49

ParentOfOne · 10/01/2025 18:01

@wriggleigglepiggle You clearly don't know what the GCSE actually entails

which is why I talked about reservations and fears, not about certainties.

@wriggleigglepiggle Humanist/atheist views are also included.
How does this work? Do they explicitly study atheist authors? E.g. Bertrans Russell, Sartre, Dawkins, etc?

@OzCalling , @titchy Thank you. Based on your feedback, it seems that your experience is very different to that of my friends - theirs was a supposedly non-faith school but the head was really a Torquemada.

@TeenToTwenties Many schools take the view that if they have to teach it the children may as well get a qualification (quite often the short course 0.5 gcse not the whole one)
[...]
Withdrawing won't mean you get to choose a different gcse, it will either be a supervised study or eg some kind of citizenship lesson instead.

I see. I hadn't appreciated these points. It's much clearer now - thank you very much

How are papers marked? Is calling out bullshit allowed?
E.g. if a question asks what the Catholics think of contraception, in addition to explaining why they oppose it, can one add that the Church made scientifically false statements about the HIV virus passing through condoms, or would that be frowned upon?

It would make no difference to the mark and would waste time needed to answer the questions.

titchy · 10/01/2025 21:45

If they accept old men dictating how they should live their sexuality based on their (the old men's) interpretation of one of the many holy books of one of the many religions around, then that's not my definition of "taking no shit"

Who are you referring to then?

Original poster

ParentOfOne · 10/01/2025 21:35

@titchy Why are you attacking me and insulting me for no reason?
I was not talking about the Catholic attitude to gays, so why mention that so specifically?

The world is full of religious leaders with extremely backward views on many things, including sexuality. This much is a fact.

@AshCrapp And you think that RE GCSE in the UK is full of girls who accept old men dictating how they should live their sexuality
No, and I'd appreciate it if people stopped putting words in my mouth.

Neither are modern day churches in the UK.
I disagree.
In the Catholic Church, the concept that contraception is a sin remains very much part of their doctrine; that Church is more hierarchical than most others, and this concept applies at all latitudes, including in the UK.

Other churches are even more backward

these girls and women are often in the grips of far more complex social and political oppression, not reducible to whether they're religious.

That is a complex discussion, and would be off topic. I agree that they are in the grips of other kinds of oppression, too, but this doesn't negate the religious oppression.
Also, your point does not apply to Catholics. Catholics believe the Pope is infallible in matters of faith, and if he says contraception is a sin this applies to UK Catholics, too.
Of course, if most Catholics disagree with the Pope and then use contraception, then it's highly debatable how truly Catholic they are, but that's a separate discussion...

OP posts:

Harrumphhhh · 10/01/2025 21:34

Are you the types of persons who think that religions shouldn't be criticised because doing so would be offensive?

Um, no. I’m the type of person who thinks you shouldn’t be rude to posters who try to answer your question.

I wonder if going to some RS lessons and seeing how teachers encourage healthy discussions might help you communicate a little more politely.

chickenpieandchips · 10/01/2025 21:29

My DS school (local state school) had RS as a compulsory gcse. My ds has never shown any religious preference, really enjoyed it as a subject and got a 9. He studied Christianity and Islam as well as ethics etc.

Blueblell · 10/01/2025 21:28

My dd did chose it as a GCSE subject - In her school it was an option she chose and I would be surprised if it was a compulsory subject.

Not the point of your question but she loved it and it covers philosophy and ethics ect. We are not are not religious.

AshCrapp · 10/01/2025 21:25

ParentOfOne · 10/01/2025 21:19

@AshCrapp By the way, your daughter isn't special in not taking bullshit.
Never said nor implied she was - there is no need to get so defensive.

There are plenty of religious girls who also take no shit

And you think that RE GCSE in the UK is full of girls who accept old men dictating how they should live their sexuality based on their (the old men's) interpretation of one of the many holy books of one of the many religions around?

It really isn't. Neither are modern day churches in the UK.

And I'd also suggest that the type of people who do accept old men dictating how they should live their sexuality would absolutely benefit from a course that interrogates religion, and in a qualification on the topic. Unfortunately these girls and women are often in the grips of far more complex social and political oppression, not reducible to whether they're religious.

titchy · 10/01/2025 21:20

ParentOfOne · 10/01/2025 21:19

@AshCrapp By the way, your daughter isn't special in not taking bullshit.
Never said nor implied she was - there is no need to get so defensive.

There are plenty of religious girls who also take no shit

Don't be fucking ignorant OP - it is possible to be both gay and Catholic you know.

titchy · 10/01/2025 21:20

If I teaches it like my friends' school does, then I'd have huge problems.

Do your friends actually know what is taught though, or are they assuming, or believing their DCs.

Original poster

ParentOfOne · 10/01/2025 21:19

@AshCrapp By the way, your daughter isn't special in not taking bullshit.
Never said nor implied she was - there is no need to get so defensive.

There are plenty of religious girls who also take no shit

OP posts:

AshCrapp · 10/01/2025 21:13

As others have said, everyone needs to do RE up until the age of 16. It's very annoying to have to teach that, and then in addition teach the GCSE as an optional subject. If you're spending time teaching it at all, you might as well teach it so that students get a qualification out of it.

Maybe his has been answered, but the answer to this question "**Humanist/atheist views are also included.How does this work? Do they explicitly study atheist authors? E.g. Bertrand Russell, Sartre, Dawkins, etc?" Is yes. Dawkins is on the curriculum, as are other atheist thinkers. It's not religious studies as in teaching students that the bible is true. Of course students are allowed to write essays that oppose Catholicism. What, do you think that most teenagers in the UK taking that GCSE are catholic? Of course they're not.

By the way, your daughter isn't special in not taking bullshit. There are plenty of religious girls who also take no shit.

GreenSkyes · 10/01/2025 21:09

I think Religious studies is a subject everyone should take. It gives you a bigger insight into different faiths and beliefs.
It's not there to convert or even promote, it's information and knowledge.
My niece did her gcses last year and her dad was very unhappy RS was compulsory. My niece enjoyed it.

Abracadabra12345 · 10/01/2025 21:00

Bodenne · 10/01/2025 20:25

Kids bloody LOVE re.

it’s only the parents who moan about it.

And a pp upthread withdrew their child from it. Wonder if the child wanted to be withdrawn?

So much hostility towards what sounds a fascinating and nuanced subject

Original poster

ParentOfOne · 10/01/2025 21:00

Livelovebehappy · 10/01/2025 20:50

This school isn’t the one for you. You can’t choose a school, knowing exactly what their curriculum is on RE, then start complaining about it. Just look at other schools and pick one that aligns with what you want for your dc.

????

I don't know exactly how the school in question teaches RS.

If it teaches it the same way most posters on here described, I'd have no problem.
If I teaches it like my friends' school does, then I'd have huge problems.

OP posts:

AConcernedCitizen · 10/01/2025 20:58

mumsthewordi · 10/01/2025 18:23

I got kicked out of gcse RE for questioning if god existed

No you didn't.

Livelovebehappy · 10/01/2025 20:50

titchy · 10/01/2025 20:50

Brickiscool · 10/01/2025 20:48

My school makes only English , maths and science compulsory at GCsE as per government guidelines.

However they advise all children to do English, maths, science, one humanity and one language. But you don't have to.

Don't focus on compulsory RS. Look at what else is compulsory.

Some schools inside on a Language and a humanity. Some schools make children reduce their curriculum in year 9 by picking some subjects then and then more in year 10.

Some schools offer very little GCSE choice at all.

This is good advice.

Brickiscool · 10/01/2025 20:48

My school makes only English , maths and science compulsory at GCsE as per government guidelines.

However they advise all children to do English, maths, science, one humanity and one language. But you don't have to.

Don't focus on compulsory RS. Look at what else is compulsory.

Some schools inside on a Language and a humanity. Some schools make children reduce their curriculum in year 9 by picking some subjects then and then more in year 10.

Some schools offer very little GCSE choice at all.

FaithFables · 10/01/2025 20:44

My kids never had to do RE in secondary school, but I went to a Catholic school and RE GCSE was compulsory. I'd been an atheist for a long time by the time I started my GCSEs, but RE was by far one of my favourites. It was so incredibly interesting. I don't think it will have changed that much.

Original poster

ParentOfOne · 10/01/2025 20:41

GinBlossom94 · 10/01/2025 18:48

I withdrew my DS from RE (can't remember what it's actually called), he's yr11 and does not go to the lessons, will not be taking the GCSE exam

May I ask why?

OP posts:

Brickiscool · 10/01/2025 20:40

It's a really interesting GCSE. Your school picks which three topics the students will cover

My school covers Christianity, islam and Ethics from a Christian view point.

You learn about euthanasia, divorce, abortion with no bias. You get to debate both sides of topics and learn why some people feel strongly one way and why others feel a different way.

Religion is certainly not pushed on you and given this country and all our rules historically come from a Christian view point it's a good history class .

Children take 10 GCSEs these days. So if this is your preferred school I wouldn't let it put you off. There is still plenty of scope there

NancyJoan · 10/01/2025 20:37

ParentOfOne · 10/01/2025 18:17

@PotteringAlonggotkickedoutandhadtoreregister it is a brilliant GCSE, it’s a brilliant A-level.

How is it a brilliant A-level? What subjects does it let you study at uni?

If we are talking about a generic understanding of religious and non-religious theories, sure, that's very interesting, if done well.

But the (IMHO flawed) English system forces students to specialise in 3-4 subjects at sixth form. The choice of A-level subjects determines the courses one can apply for at uni. What courses does a RS A-level give access to? Aren't there better options, which give access to more courses?

well you could, but you would get no marks because it doesn’t answer the question. It’s the academic subject of religion, not a long rant about your own personal beliefs

Well, now it's you who gets no marks for poor text comprehension! :)
I specifically talked about adding, in addition to (not instead of) answering the question on why, and what I said was not a personal opinion nor a rant, but the factual event that the Catholic Church has in the past stated that the HIV virus passes through the condom, which is scientifically false.

Going off on a tangent about the evils of the Catholic Church is a rant.
Pointing out that the Church has made statements which are factually and scientifically false is not.

An A level in RS would be a good subject for applying to study, for example, Law, Medicine, Psychology, Politics, Business, Philosophy, English Literature, Modern Languages. It’s an essay based subject, that requires independent research and study, and would combine with other A level subjects to lead to almost any degree. I cannot think of any subject that an A level in RS would close the door to.

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