Tiffin Girls vs indies

I am looking for a tutor for my DD to prepare her for 11plus exam next year. Does anyone know a good one around Walton? I am not sure online will be efficient, so prefer in person.

My daughter is in y8 at TGS. She is happy there so far.

I was worried it would be a hot house and amplify her tendency to perfectionism but I have found she's doing similar amounts of homework to her friends at Coombe Girls. The school pastoral system has been very good so far. They even had a parental talk about helping with perfectionism and resilience alongside other useful stuff like neurodiversity ones. It feels like they want to support the girls wellbeing as well as results, but let's see how things go once we get to exam years.

Y7 transition was great, so much is done to help them settle, more than her friends seemed to get in Coombe girls (though they are all quite happy there too I believe).

Lots of stuff to help them learn how to revise, how to organise their time so they don't just expect them to inherently know all this. Frequent end of topic/term tests (similar to friends though, maybe this is the norm in state secondary). The frequency almost makes it less stressful for my daughter, seems like lower stakes and keeps her on top of things.

The school is hot on things like online safety and anti bullying.

Teaching has been good, and feedback from teachers has been easy to get.
She actually had 8 girls from her state primary go there but isn't in a form with any of them. She's made a lovely group of new friends who she commutes with and they meet up occasionally to go to the cinema or plan group activities together. They are of varied ethnic backgrounds, no issue with socialising. Similar socioeconomic background , I think it is not hugely diverse in that regard.

She does piano lessons in school, loves her teacher.

For sports, she did various clubs, netball, trampolining and had the opportunity to go to a few comps but she is in a local gymnastics squad and competes with them , it's better than what a school could offer in terms of specialist coaches and equipment.

She's done a Latin competition and some computing competition as well. It wasn't pressured, they were group things she and her friends seemed to be doing it for an excuse for a sleepover to plan their submissions!

Things aren't swanky. But we like the school. We weren't in a position to consider a private so I have nothing to compare against...

@SometimesYouWinSometimesYouLearn

most independent schools are paying less than comprehensive schools. St Paul’s (girls) still pays more.

Tiffin Girls gives exactly the same salaries as any comprehensive school.

Pay is better in independent schools

Pension is not

My view (ex private school pupil) is that if you're in a highly academic state school there are very few private schools for girls that can really add value over that state school. City of London, St Paul's and Westminster would be some the few but ££££.

As far as extra curriculars are concerned if you have time to do taxi duty and research you will get better provision in local clubs/private teaching than through schools - independent schools win on convenience though but you pay for that. Possibly better for less competitive opportunities but not necessarily.

Obviously if you don't have the option to ferry to music lessons/sports club because of work, then being on one site wins.

Not spending school fees frees up a lot of budget for sport, music etc!

Pay and pension are no longer better in leading independent schools.

Staff are likely to be paid better at Tiffin Girls (St Paul’s’ Girls’ is the exception - I don’t believe that it has cut pay or withdrawn from the pension scheme, but the others you mention have or have tried to).

DD had the choice of Tiffin or independent a few years ago.

Part of the decision was that, having come from a state primary, I wanted to avoid more years of her teachers being limited by the National Curriculum, and by ever decreasing investment. I also wanted her to have more free choices at GCSE and A level, rather than just option blocks.

It also seemed to me that the cohort at Tiffin (from what I could find out) was very focused on academic achievement in STEM subjects, with parents who viewed things like music as soft subjects that wouldn’t lead to well paid careers. I knew I had a DD who was likely to be more interested in non STEM subjects, and that I wanted her to be at a school with peers who valued those things as well as STEM, and who also wanted to explore things that enrich life in the wider sense, like music and art and drama.

In the end, I think that the cohort is probably similar across these high performing schools. Though private schools probably can influence it a bit if they choose, as they set their own exams and also interview, rather than going purely on ranked exam results.

Thank you so much for this. If (big if) we are lucky enough to get a place at Tiffins it is difficult to decide what to do. I loved Tiffins when we looked round, but also hear a lot about how indies offer better opportunities. I’ve also heard a lot about pressure, which I’m not so worried about as DD is at state school with low level tutoring, so if she gets in I would expect her to be middle of the class which would be more than ok.

Our DD is in Tiffin y7, last year we had to make a decision as she got offers from 3 independents. We went for Tiffin and so far not regretting it. Yes, I agree with another poster, sport provision could be better. If your daughter is in team A, B or C then all fine but all teams below that don't participate much in inter- school competitions. But no complains about other clubs, there is a wide range of lunchtime and after school clubs, daughter joined quite a few in September and then had to drop a couple as it was too much. Music provision absolutely brilliant...Quality of teaching very good, teachers very nice and approachable. We have homework but it's very manageable, the girls seem to be working fast during the lessons and sometimes part of the homework is done in class. No homework given for half terms. DD does some revision as they have tests at the end of each term but that's probably happens in all schools. So, generally, so far so good, we are very happy with the school. I thought I'd share it as I remember how stressful the decision making process was for us last year....

A friends daughter was at leh prep. Then went to tiffin girls years 7-11. Then St Paul’s girls. She liked tiffin however felt the sport was rubbish. She rowed so had to do this externally and then did a little at St Paul’s (Covid years). I think she felt the teaching was good. She was very measured in her opinion of the school. Whilst at St Paul’s she spoke a lot about the standard of teaching. I also got the sense there were quite a few girls who struggled with the pressure. This is a recent example

Our daughter applied to three schools including Tiffin and has two offers including LEH which she really likes as do we. If she gets a Tiffin offer she and we are struggling with the decision. Part of me wants the decision taken out of our hands too. So many great things about both schools but distinct pros and cons. It feels like a finely balanced decision. Good luck x

I wouldn’t assume the state will pick up all of the increase. It generally doesn’t, even when it claims things are ‘fully funded’

the D of E program is not free in state schools, and honestly only a handful will be doing the Gold level, so whatever its cost is not really relevant to the majority

I'm not sure race is the reason. My two nieces are at one of the schools mentioned in the first post and they are white European. Their mum doesn't let them out on the tube, insists on school bus, calls the 17 year old every 15 min on the rare occassion she does go out with friends. She's worried about paedophiles, men attacking etc.

"Not sure if it's a factor for you but one thing to be aware of is there's limited sociability outside of school at TGS as majority come from such disparate areas & culturally are not encouraged to socialise."

I agree with the above though they do socialise at school, but not much outside. My daughter, who is white, is at a different London girls' grammar school (the school is about 10-15% white) and her Indian/Sri Lankan friends were barely let out of the house before the end of year 11. She had one white friend she could go on trips to London with.

Some of her friends seem to be allowed out more now they are in sixth form.

It's probably worth mentioning that TGS majors on STEM subjects and 40-50 girls go on to do Medicine every year, many at the London universities, and many more than most of the academically comparable independent schools in SW London. This may be one explanation for the relatively low proportion going to Oxbridge, despite its selectivity. (I'm an ex-TGS parent, so I'm basing this on my oldest DD's cohort - a few years ago now but still relevant). It has a strongly South Asian demographic, and given the wide catchment most girls will be either the only one from their primary school, or at most one of two or three. The school is very aware of this and very good at the Y7 settling in stuff.

Here is the financials of Tiffin Girls. Great school but seriously underfinanced as most of the grammar schools. The comparison of wealthy schools like Eton is crazy

https://schools-financial-benchmarking.service.gov.uk/School?urn=136615#dashboard 

And given how extremely selective TGS is I would say that a lot of independents like GHS are actually proving quite a good value add, because in many cases their results are the same or better. Extra curriculars will of course be better funded.

That said if you aren't wealthy then TGS is going to be an excellent option if your child gets a place. If subsequently if turns out your daughter falls behind a bit in a subject at TGS it will be a lot cheaper to hire a tutor than it would have been to pay for years of private school.

Not sure if it's a factor for you but one thing to be aware of is there's limited sociability outside of school at TGS as majority come from such disparate areas & culturally are not encouraged to socialise.

I have friends with girls at TGS and other friends who tried to get daughters in there but were unsuccessful. From what I understand, unless you live in the inner catchment, chances are limited.

I have a DD at GHS and I'd say it's easier to get in there than TGS, simply because the number of applicants for TGS is so much higher.

Have you experienced the private sector at all? I have and have no recollection whatsoever of designer handbags being the norm. Far from it in fact.

At last somebody has at depth insight and doesn't rely only on the GLORIFIED legends.

Top private as well as the TGS have Leavers Destinations page. Only a handful of TGS goes to Oxbridge ( if that is something one has in plans). These days it is more likely to get in from Brompton Manor and similar sort of schools

Many independent school pupils are not high achievers in all areas (e.g. struggle with maths) but independents get good grades for them.

The comparison here is not with the average independent school where that would be the case. The OP is listing TOP independent where it is more difficult to get to than Tiffin. Yes, the top private not only require you to pay but also they are very competitive to get in.

And

Throughout education they don't spend a bit more than £4k per pupil per year as it is in grammar but much much more as they are paid schools.

I wouldn't recommend TGS for Oxbridge

• Oxford rank your gcses against your cohort. Because TGS is so academically selective at entry that will count against you. (Obviously this is total nonsense as much of the achievement is down to the high ability of the cohort not the school and it is ironic that the same child would be ranked more highly had they been sent to the vast majority of independent schools)
• The teachers don't have the time and capacity to go beyond the curriculum in the way that is helpful for Oxbridge and they don't have time to provide individualised help with Oxbridge prep

I would go for a good independent over TGS if money were no object. However I would choose TGS over the other local state schools if I had an academically able and unstressy child.

Good things about TGS are

• Peer group. Well behaved and hard working. Your daughter will have friends who will want to go to the library with her and revise! At a certain point teens pay a lot more attention to their friends than their parents so this is an invaluable advantage especially with a teen who isn't self motivated.
• Music and science seem to be very good and well taught as I believe is art.
• School is well organised and responsive to parents when issues occur
• All subjects appear to have subject specialist teachers. Very little supply.
• Fairly light touch to discipline. Not the zero tolerance blink and you get a detention approach to education.

Bad things about TGS

• Some poor and lazy maths teaching. The girl's tend to get decent grades anyway due to being able at maths but I actually think they could do better if the teaching was improved.
• No written feedback, just numbers or letters on reports.
• In English not enough essays are set and marked.
• Quite a lot of anxiety and eating disorders which can be amplified by the peer group (will be the same with all academically selective girls schools though I imagine)
• Too much study leave and not enough learning time in sixth form and a rigid approach to subject choice e.g. have to take five subjects in year 12 if you are doing further maths.

@BonjourCrisette your assessment of where there is divergence is exactly right.

Class size is obviously another big one - but behaviour is good, so that's mitigated a little.