Resitting GCSE Maths and English

They don’t. They have equal weighting officially. A lot of institutions specify Language as an entry requirement though.

That’s in order to enrol though, not to avoid a resit. For government purposes they have equal weighting.

That changed years ago. Lit has equal weighting as far as government is concerned

Yes, he is in a special program where they do three GCSEs over the course of a year including the subject they have to resit (either English or maths). There's an additional study skills tutorial he attends alongside the GCSEs, so it fills a full timetable.

Yh that's already been agreed, however, there are no sixth forms or colleges within an hour of us in London that would count Lit. And that's London. Most people don't have as much choice.

Yes I think some people are talking about specific sixth form requirements - which are not every sixth form.

My DCs' leafy comp allowed students into sixth form who needed to retake – I guess they made a judgement as to whether they thought they would cope.Mate of DS2's got a 3 in Eng lang and started his STEM A levels. He retook and got a 6 so maybe they knew the 3 was a bizarre blip.

But it is true that some unis ask for higher grades in maths and English whatever you are studying. DD got a 6 in maths but any lower and I don;t think she would have got an offer from one RG uni (even tho she was applying to study English). That issue may well not be relevant for @Hazeby's DD tho, as there are many unis that are happy with a 4 in both maths and English.

It's not new. One of my friends eventually did a degree in aeronautical engineering at Uni. He had to have English O- level (ie. Pre GCSE). He took it 9 times.

That's a requirement of the establishment though. A 4 in either counts as a pass.

@MrsHamlet at my DS college (England) you have to have a minimum of a 4 in English Lang to enrol. Doesn’t matter how high your grade is in English Lit or not, you absolutely have to pass English Lang to attend .

That's a requirement of the school. A grade 4 in either "counts" for the avoidance of the resit.

It isn't. It's an English.

Wow I didn't earliest how many school restrict dc from next steps. DD2 failed her lang ( since been diagnosed with ADHD and doesn't cope well with long essay questions). She was able to access 6th form and resat her Lang alongside the A'level / Btec courses

You've had some very good advice but to be clear, many 6th forms will take you without a pass in either but still require you to retake.
However, possibly even more importantly you may need these passes to get future employment, apprenticeships, higher education.
My son achieved 5s in English Lit and maths. So was accepted into 6th form, but he retook English Language (got a 3 in Y11) as it's important for his future. He got a 4 in Y12.

This is a good point and might be why. Manchester uni for example allows functional skills level 2 instead of English Lang. But it doesn't allow English lit!

FWIW my DDs 6th form (huge range of courses from L2- T levels and A Levels) makes anyone who didn't get a 5 in eng lang retake. Even if they're going to do a btec. Argument being, that's what's needed for almost all courses after 6th form.

My dd got a 3 in English language and a 4 in English literature and did not have to resit she is severely dyslexic and was unlikely to ever get a higher grade and was looking at a vocational based college course.
I think resitting if you have a 4 in literature is very dependant of what you want to do for some kids it might be the right decision if they want a more academic path but for many it's better to focus on what they are good at.

The reason that some settings insist on a Lang resit is that they know it is the gateway qualification to obtaining apprenticeships, university places and securing many employment opportunities. The Lit 4 thing being accepted when Lang is 3 or below is about meeting a government funding requirement for 16-18 year olds . In fact, I have seen high-performing STEM A -Level applicants unable to apply for some universities due to their GCSE Eng Lang grade. Some will even request a 6 in Lang for pure science courses. Also, all professional jobs require a decent quality of written communication so it’s used as an essential criterion by employers too.

There are (at least) 2 things in play:

1. Meeting the government funding requirements, which as detailed above are OK with Lit pass only
2. Meeting the standard set by the 6th form / college for the course you actually want to study. This of course may require Eng Lang to have been passed, or even passed at above a 4. Just as they may require other GCSEs at a certain grade too.

Out of interest is he doing any other courses alongside the resit?

I think that's just guidance though. I'm willing to bet every single 6th form of college in London would ask you to resit if you don't pass eng Lang but do pass lit.

No. Not according to table 2 in the government document I linked to above.

For funding purposes a 4+ in Lit is sufficient.
Obviously specific courses may still require the Lang pass (or even a 5 or 6 or 6).

You may find that if they don't get at least a 4 in English language, even with a 4+ at English literature, they'll be locked out of a number of L3 courses at college.

My son got a 5 in literature, but a 3 in language and is currently doing a resit to move on to his chosen L3 course. He wasn't able to do A levels or T levels this year because of his Eng language grade. An absolute waste of his year, imo.

And if they get a 4 in lit but not Lang, they need to resit

It's English Lang, not literature that you need so just English Lang is retaken.
If you fail English Lang but pass English lit, you still have to retake.
My DDs friend got a 7 in English lit but a 4 in Lang and couldn't get onto A Levels at the 6th form as she needed to retake the eng Lang

yes, spot on.