School comparison data

@Tiredalwaystired that is the theory. But in reality the statistics show that, on average, higher attaining students make more progress than lower attaining students. So those with higher numbers of bright students will show more progress than those with a lower average attainment.

The model is not perfect, but is better than just using attainment. As long as you are aware of the flaws in the model!

Think of it as progress being a percentage of attainment. Imagine progress is 10% per year (figures absolutely made up to show what I mean!). So a student getting 40% will progress by 4% whereas a student getting 70% will progress by 7%....

But Progress 8 is measured from each individual child’s baseline entry point and the progress they make from there. How is that cohort dependent? Surely a child that progresses one or two grades from a low base point is as much of a celebration than progressing from a high base point? Isn’t that the point of this measure?

I am also a data geek and fell down the same hole but when I actually started physically viewing schools it mostly went out the window. Results only play quite a small part in the bigger picture.

1. Results aren’t just a reflection of teaching. They are also driven by parental input, the natural academic intake of the cohort, the level of classroom disruption and the motivation of the child themselves. Is it a school where it’s “ok” to work hard / be clever? This can be seen in areas like Bucks which is full grammar. The grammars cream off the top performing kids so the results of the secondary moderns look “poor” in comparison. However, some of these schools are doing amazingly well in terms of results and Progress 8. In our local town with two single sex grammars, they each have 4 children classed as disadvantaged. The secondary moderns has 23. These things make a difference.

2. EBACC as a measurement is rubbish. If your child is not an all rounder, being forced to do a language etc can be to their detriment. It’s far more important to look at restrictions that might impact your child. For example, can anyone take three separate sciences or is it restricted to top sets only? Are there limits on the number of languages can they take? What do the current option blocks look like - will they prevent your child taking their two favourite subjects as they are in the same block?

3. You want a school that your child will come out of with 9 great GCSEs. Even Oxbridge only looks at your top eight grades sat at the same time. There is absolutely no need to do any more unless your child would thrive in doing so. There’s this weird ambitious parent notion that doing more is somehow better. I would be wary of schools where the majority only take 8. Also look at where schools sit some GCSEs a year early - are they still sitting a minimum of 8 in Y11? This is important.

4. What’s the general vibe like at the school? Quite frankly some of the more academic schools (admittedly private) sent us running to the hills. One in particular felt very formal, quite cold, the children (and parents!) were very competitive and pointy elbowed, and the children were all clones of each other. I felt you are paying for a product than actually giving your child the ability to just be themselves. Every school has a different vibe - it’s a bit like buying a house - your gut reaction tells you a lot.

5. Always look at the SEN support and pastoral offering even if your child has no known additional needs right now. How are mental health issues dealt with? It hasn’t affected us but some of my daughter’s friends have only been identified as dyslexic since starting at secondary, and a classmate has developed social anxiety. The teenage years can be hard for some.

6. Extra curricular offering. If you have a football loving daughter, does the school have a team? Is sport only really available for the more talented kids or can anyone join in? Is there a school play and is it fully inclusive or audition only for a minority? Music groups, choirs etc. Clubs for the more quirky kids like role playing games? It’s important to have balance and downtime from the classroom

There’s a whole load more to consider too but these are broad brush. Probably most importantly is are you in catchment and / or likely to get a place based on where you live? It’s pointless finding the most amazing school if you stand no chance of getting in.

Do you not think you might be overthinking this?! There are many great schools out there with similar range of results. Start by shortlisting geographically unless you are prepared to uproot and look for points of difference that apply to your child, such as opportunities for sport, music etc , academic selectivity or faith if that is important to your family,

What exactly are you hoping to achieve from this exercise? How old are your dc or is this hypothetical?

Honestly, take your year 6 child to the open day/evening and talk to other parents of students currently attending the school. Every child has different needs and there is no one size fits all data metric.

Focus
Not focuse obvs

My focuse before dc attended secondary and now has changed. For me:-

Can they travel there and back independently easily?

What extra curricular stuff is there? Productions and music shows etc.

How did I feel when I viewed the school - did they have a good library / student artwork up on the walls / well used musical instruments in the classrooms / happy looking teachers? What do the art studios look like?

% of students achieving old money a-c in English and maths.

Do they rigidly protect single sex spaces for students such as changing/bathrooms?

There isn't many of the above I even considered before I started visiting schools, and these things became more important as we viewed and dc1 started at their given school.

This, plus

How many of your 'wish list' of schools would be likely to rank your DC high enough against its oversubscription criteria for a place to be offered? By naming schools on your CAF, you are making individual applications to each one, in an order which tells your home LA I'd most like a places at this one; if I can't have that one, I'd like this one instead... and so on down your list. But if your ranked preferences don't include at least one school which is as near as darn it guaranteed to offer, you'll still end up with the nearest school which didn't fill all its places with people who actually wanted their DC to go there, just like the parent who used no carefully pored-over spreadsheets at all in their application strategy.

I'd just look at progess 8 and attainment 8

Then look at it for your type of pupil. The pupil characteristics tab (so if they had high prior attainment, have sen, are pp).

I think ebacc is a non-measure.

I would also caution that the school could be very different by the time your child sit their exams.

Number of GCSEs, we found some private girls schools doing only 9 and only top sets for triple science. Other schools, all try triple science unless struggling massively with Maths and English. Also, some schools high As or 9s from MFL, which happens to be spoken at home. So high German grades and all kids have a German or Swiss German parent.

Lots of post how top schools get top grades because the additional use of tutors is rife. Are children forced to leave prior to exam time.
Equally I worry if top schools produce top grades at the expense of a child’s mental health.
Overall as a parent I wanted my children to have a healthy happy childhood and a love of lifelong learning.
So distance, friendship (cohort), and kindness were my priority. Sport and art opportunity as well unless you do those outside the school.
I prefer small intimate vs large schools. I also like a tidy clean environment. And barbed wire fencing an absolute no go.
Mostly stuff no in reports.

@SpicyTomatos the point of open days is not so much to listen to what the teachers say 🙂but it is a chance to talk to students, to see what the wall displays look like, to watch how the staff interact with students.

It is the "soft" stuff. In most schools, open days will be a performance. For some schools, students are told what to say - and what not to say. But there are questions to ask that give a better reality. Ask what students would change about the school. Ask how many cover teachers they have. Ask how many subjects have had the same teacher for the whole gsce course. Ask about the after school clubs - are they by invitation or can anyone go? Ask if any teachers have their own children at the school! Ask what reward / discipline system they use.

I also recommend looking on the school website and reading through the letters sent home - they are usually readily available and give a good flavour of the current issues!

Sorry posted too soon! Do they support and encourage the good teachers, and do they take.steps to help the weaker ones improve or even move them on where necessary.

Study after study has.indicated that the biggest in-school factor behind academic success is the quality of the teachers/teaching. So I would be looking hard at the HT and the SLT - do they support and ebheir good staff

*sorry Times not Tele

If it is a state school the government website makes it easy to compare. If indie or private the Telegraph. For some reason a lot of the private schools don't have full results on the govt one but you can see them on their websites if in doubt. I'd look for a school that clearly shows what pupils get (full range of subjects and how many got A/B etc for each). Anything unclear and I'd assume they are hiding poor subjects and failures.

P8 is cohort dependent
The demographics of certain cohorts produce higher p8 than others

Most importnat
Is it local? Can they get there alone? Will they be living near their friends?

In terms of data progress 8 is probably the best metric of overall development of pupils, whether high or low performing at a base level. All profess is positive and the greater the p8 score the better overall the school is faring for all children.

Other questions about ethos etc can only really be answered properly on open days, or talking to kids and parents with experience of the school.

Progress 8 is important I think. But so is visiting the school, meeting the pupils and talking to parents with pupils at the school too.

Attainment 8 is the measure of how well as school has done.

Progress 8 measures how well children have maintained or exceeded the standard they started the school with, so is more neutral of intake - so for me that the's most important one

I would be asking the following questions:

• Does the school have a generally strong track record of results?
• Does the school seem to have a culture of encouraging pupils to pursue their interests (and enable them to do this through extracurricular activities)
• Do the school's vision and values align with those of our family?
• Does the school have sound behaviour-management policies?
• Is there good provision for SEN (if relevant)?

Do can do all the data analysis in the world but it won't predict your child's grades and it won't tell you if their experience of school will be a happy one.