When did all the secondary schools decide to stop teaching at 16 then...?

DD2 goes to a very good 6th form college which does a levels.Btechs and some other vocational courses.
When I went to the year 11 6th form day with my 16 year old we were told that colleges are able to provde a much wider range of course then the school cam
n.

Errm Unquiet Dad, I teach in one of those schools with a 6th form in your city.

Very very few are doctors children, and a lot of the 6th form receive EMA's. Some people just like to live where they grew up, before house prices went mad.

My db works for the council (manual job), his dd stayed in my 6th form, as do a lot of others...........

Sorry about typos - am off out, so that was rushed!

I teach at an academic FE college (mostly teaches 'A' levels) and so most schools are 11- 16. So the standard is that most students will leave school at 16, and go on to either the 'A' level college, or the vocational college if that's what they want to do.

Whilst, the downside of this system is that the 11 - 16 schools suffer (for reasons previously stated), I do think that it is better for 'A' levels.

For example, where I am there are lots of choices for 'A' levels - students don't just choose history 'A' level, they choose what period they want to study (ancient, tudors or modern). This has real benefits because if you're interested in something, then you do find it easier to learn! The second benefit is that teachers are more specialist. For example, most of the lecturers in my department have a higher degree (they outnumber the number of teachers with just the one degree). A lot of lecturers have got Phds too. Also, we're actively encouraged to be 'A' level examiners... again most departments have got at least one examiner in them and because we don't teach when we're marking, it is easier for us to be examiners, and so we make up the majority of teachers (not something I ever experienced when I taught in schools). Finally, I do think students are better prepared for uni. The point of college is that it is supposed to be a halfway house to uni, so it is a lot more geered up. Some of the schools I worked in used to get great 'A' level results, but they still supervised the students in their free periods (and enforced silent study on them) and they were in no way prepared for uni.

The resulst may not always be as great - but there are complex reasons for that - the fact that students at colleges tend not to do general studies which artificially boosts up school grades, and perceptions of colleges, which mean that some more academic students avoid college etc. But on the whole, I think the 11 - 16 schools, plus College has got a lot going for it, and having taught under both systems, I do think the college system is better.

Just my random mutterings though!

Our area has mainly 11-16 schools with two state sixth form colleges in the big town. ONe of these colleges is very academic, the other one is less so. The disadvantage is that the 11-16 schools have difficulty recruiting the best teachers as most secondary teachers enjoy sixth form teaching.
As for physics, it is a national disgrace that there is such a shortage of teachers and that we have to import so many physical scientists and engineers from abroad because we can't produce enough in the UK.

Not all sixth form colleges are terrible though - our area has sixth forms, but DD preferred to go to the sixth form college in a neighbouring area, which has excellent results, outstanding OFSTED reports and, more importantly for DD, a far wider range of subjects - DD wanted to do English language & English literature as separate subjects, but if she'd stayed at her old school, she couldn't have done English language at all (not even as a joint A level with Lit, as DS did at his grammar school). Also, she is able to do more than 3 subjects there - she's also doing History & Psychology.

re the Physics A level thing, this is a very real problem in lots of places.

There is a national shortage of Physics teachers.....people with the right degrees are not entering the profession, which leads to poorer quility teaching of the subject, which leads to less people doing Physics at Degree level, and we enter a downward spiral

Some areas have schools up to age 16 and then a Sixth Form college.

I teach a large sixth form, few children in out LEA go to college, unless the local school doesn't do the course they are interested in (mostly vocational courses that the local college specialises in).

My dh went to a sixth for college.

Your secondary school will be able to let you know where their kids move to.

poodle, you're leaning against an open door here.

In my city, only 5 of the 29 state secondaries have a sixth form.

This is because they had Blunkett's pinko wanker mob in charge for many years and they decided, in an act of chip-on-the-shoulder class-war, that opportunities for working-class kids would be made much more interesting if they were to prevent them all from getting A-Levels or being able to attend a grammar school.

The only schools which hung on to their sixth-forms were those in the affluent suburbs represented by a Tory MP (now Lib Dem).

The message this city council now sends out is that, if you happen to live in one of the "nice" areas and Daddy is a doctor or a lawyer with a BMW, then you may, by their good grace, have a decent education. If not - even if you are middle-class and want the best for your children - then you are stuffed. (And we have one of the very best secondaries in our area, it just doesn't have a sixth-form.)

Basically it sends the message that, if your postcode is not one of two or three selected ones, your kids are expected either a) to leave school and go and study at the local dive of an FE college, or b) to get two or three buses across town to a school which might just qualify them for something more intellectually stimulating than frying onions (provided they can cope with being sneered at because Daddy isn't a doctor or a lawyer with a BMW).

I'm not bitter.

As I said before that most schols around here have a 6th form but thee are also 3 6th form colleges. DD1 stayed at school to do A levels. DD2 18 is just finishing 6th form college which has turned out to be a much beter option for her then staying at school. DD3 16 is in year 11 and will be going to 6th form college in September which provides more options for er then school would.

I have to disagree ReallyTired. When I was 16 our town set up a 6th form college, ours was the last year at our school to have the option of staying in the sixth form. Some of my friends went to the college, others, including me, stayed at school.

I never ever regretted that, our sixth form was great and in no way did we feel like 'children' while those at sixth form college were 'adults'. We were treated like adults and allowed privileges and freedoms not given to the younger pupils.

My children will go on to sixth form at their school, it is a brilliant sixth form and offers a huge choice of subjects, a few less common ones in conjunction with the secondary school next door to it which also has it's own sixth form. The sixth formers I've known in the last few years have really thrived in that environment, both academically and as young adults and have progressed to university and adult life very easily.

I also think it's important to keep those 16-18 year-olds in school as role models for the younger pupils. Schools with sixth forms can also attract a different range of teachers, because many teachers want to teach up to A level but don't only want to teach sixth-formers. Teachers at my old school all had to make that choice when the sixth form college was set up, and it was very difficult for many of them.

I think that its a pity that our town does not have a sixth form college. It allows kids more choice of subject and facilites.

I know someone whose son is gifted and talented but goes to school in a poor area. Inspite of being only fifteen he already has GCSE A in Maths and Statistics and is good at music. He is predicted 11 A/A grade GCSE. He desperately wants to A-level Physics but his school does not offer A-level physics. The posh school that does offer A-level physics as refused him a place because he lives too far away.

Gifted kids from poor families are denied opportunites. If there was one sixth form college that everyone in the town went to then this boy would have the opportunity to do A-level physics.

A lot of sixteen year olds benefit from a more adult enviromnent. It gives a better preparation for university. I don't think school sixth forms give the students enough freedom.

My old secondary school has a sixth form (it's just built a whole new building to house them) as do most of the schools around here. There are two or three tertiary colleges around, in the borough and surrounding areas but which are a bus ride or two away.

I left in 82.

We had to go to the local 6th form or FE college.

(Or, more usually, walk into a job on the potbanks.)

When I left comprehensive school in 1982, we didn't have a sixth form. One had to go to Sixth Form College for A levels etc.

Here there are lower, middle and upper schools so 4-9, 9-14 and 14-18

I teach in an independent school, starlight, and our students do most of their GSCEs at age 15/16.

Who knows what the LA schools get up to?

some LAs are 11-6 then sixth form college, others are 11-18, others are a mixture - there was a trend a while back for 11-16 then college, but it is going the other way now

In my area, the secondary schools go to 16, and then the sixth form colleges take over.

My secondary education stopped at 15 too, a good three months before I was 16.