What’s more important primary or secondary education?

@Hercisback1

know of plenty of teachers who morally wouldn't teach in a private, yet would in a grammar.

Do they consider teaching in private schools immoral? 😄
Let's be realistic, if anything keeps them in state school is the state pension and the fact that it isn't easy to get a job in the private school. Also, there are huge expectations from the teachers in private schools.

Superselective generally means there is no catchment. @AlwaysFreezing

Private schools never have catchment- superselective or not.

Most of grammar school (selective) have catchment. There are some that don't of course, but still most of them do.

Sorry@TheGoldenGate, you really are very wrong. But you are obviously viewing all private schools through rose tinted spectacles and all state schools through whatever the opposite of rose tinted spectacles is that there's no point discussing this further.

I don't think they are quite as different as you make out. I know of plenty of teachers who morally wouldn't teach in a private, yet would in a grammar.

A quick look at the TES would tell you the pay isn't much different. Lots of the private schools aren't willing to share the pay, putting people off applying.

I just wanted to pick up on a point made in this post. Superselective generally means there is no catchment. You may want to move to make the journey easier, but it's my understanding that a superselective school takes the children with the very highest 11 plus scores and doesn't take account of distance from the school. Or at least that was the case in my grammar area.

Teachers are more attracted bto paycheck than option of working in underfunded grammar with limited resources. I have in the family a retired teacher who worked in grammar as well as comprehensives and private.

As for cohort, selective private have a equally selective cohort

My point is not that grammar are bad but private and grammar are hugely different because of money £

DD just started at independent, selective secondary after going to a state primary school.

Our state secondaries are shockingly bad but the primaries generally OK.

She's very bright and already flourishing in her new school which is a relief as I'd been worried she'd be behind the prep school kids.

Socially she's much better off at her new school too as there are a lot more kids like her (nerdy, quieter etc) so I think it'll make for an easier teen experience.

They really don't. Many aren't part of the TPS anymore either.

however there are exceptional educators everywhere.

The private school lure them with better salaries

In contrast, private schools depend on exceptional educators and do not face shortages of materials or staff.

I agree private schools are better resourced, however there are exceptional educators everywhere. This comes across like private schools have the best teachers, which isn't true. Private schools generally have supportive parents who are interested in education, hence paying.

I'd love to see P8 for private schools.

You make an excellent point about resources. And then Oxford will come along and judge your gcse results in the context of the cohort within which they were taken meaning that you will need to get higher results than the children at the vast majority of independent schools schools to appear to be above average! Which is either quite mad (and they aren't as clever as they think they are) or deliberate bias against grammar schools.

There are however two big advantages of grammar schools

• Cohort. Teenagers are massively influenced by one another. Generally at a grammar they are a hard working bunch, less behaviour issues and will be a good influence on your child academically. Peer support when revising, interesting class discussions etc.

• Teachers. Lots of teachers are attracted to teaching well behaved, academically able students so there are less recruitment issues finding subject specialists. Teachers are less stressed meaning more relaxed interactions with students and less chance of a draconian behavior system

There is one exceptional secondary state near me (but not super close) and two decent primary schools.

Check the catchment of the secondary school and if it is on your street. Take into account that there will be lower population of kids and the catchment will be probably larger. Calculate wraparound care cost at primary vs private

Well it happened to me, ‘74, no prep, not as clever as some, bullied too, moved from private primary to comprehensive, that was merging 2 grammar schools and 1 secondary modern together too.
i went to a better secondary school, in a different county( about 5 miles away) much happier, parents couldn’t afford private then

None exist. There are no grammar schools comparable to private institutions; they occupy entirely different ends of the spectrum. The key distinction lies in funding: grammar schools are underfunded, receiving less money per pupil than even comprehensive schools, while private schools benefit from substantial financial support from parents. This disparity results in significant differences in teaching quality and expectations. Achievement in grammar schools is largely driven by the initiative of students and their parents, often yielding impressive results despite mediocre teachers and limited resources. In contrast, private schools depend on exceptional educators and do not face shortages of materials or staff.
Ambitious parents think that the superselection at a 11+ exam determines the same experience as in private. The truth is totally different because of ££££££.

@TheGoldenGate "I think that people make mistake assuming that in grammar schools ( selective) is like in selective private."
Some are. Some aren't. Depends on the individual schools,

Do you always go berserk for no apparent reason? And this observation is factual

You clearly have no idea what is the difference between the grammar and private schools and it is like comparing pear and oranges. Totally opposite spectrum of schools. The only thing they have together is 11+ exam though slightly different. Apart from that - nothing

You quoted me referring to the process I’ve gone through with my child and suggested I’d made a mistake in my advice to OP. 🙄

I didn’t. I shared my experience in good faith. There’s no right or wrong answer to OPs question so I’d hope that it’s helpful for her to hear about other people experiences when she’s weighing up what she wants to do.

It really is not factual that “private school is nowhere similar to grammar schools.” As I said I know plenty of families who are sitting both types of exam, see the appeal of both types of school and what they are looking for in a school could be met by either.

I’m not going to go back and forth with you any more. Sorry for a derail OP!

Why are you talking so much about your child? What has that got to do with my comment?
What is it that irritated you?
I just stated that private school is nowhere similar to grammar schools. And that has nothing to do with your child. That is the fact.

If you have in your location outstanding secondaries with excellent GCSE results then going private is not a value for money.

But it often is at a primary level even if you have around good primaries. You have to calculate the cost of wrap around childcare after 3 pm collection, cost of breakfast club, cost of swimming, add cost of clubs, cost of meals at school.
If you add it all and compare with the fee you will pay for private school that includes it all in the price then you may find that it is not that expensive.

Look I’m not here for a fight but that’s an irritating comment. I’ve said the same as everyone else that it depends on the child and the schools available etc.

But I’m not mistaken about anything. My child has moved to at a prep with a history of sending children to super selective grammar schools in London. Our school advised us that our DC showed aptitude to do the same in that context.

The school is a non selective prep and not pushy. Super selective grammar in London is not aspirational for me as it appears to be very full on and not a lot of fun. In any case it wasn’t for us anyway because DC had been through enough changing school and I didn’t want him to work in the summer holidays - no child can succeed in those exams without preparation.

He’s a bright child but we put up with a lot of disruption at state primary, partly because we were squeamish about private school and guilty about opting out of our local community because we have money. We know he’ll be fine but I also know there would be more choice and opportunities if he had moved sooner.

I think both are important. School choice depends on the child, the local schools and parental values. Most people in your position with an academic child who want to spend their money on education seem to take one of 2 paths:

1)Private prep followed by super- selective grammar (need to be in catchment or move if necessary.

2)Good/outstanding state primary followed by selective private for secondary.

Some move their children from state to private at 16 or vice versa as long as state is very good as they think it might increase oxbridge chances or they/ the children want a change of scenery.

Basically it is very rare ime for someone to move a child from prep primary to a good local state comp. I think once you've bought into private at junior school level it's very difficult to get comfortable with the idea of a comp secondary education especially with the peer pressure of all the other kids going to St Paul's/Wilsons etc etc

My kids will be state all the way btw as cannot afford private and I'm in London if that makes a difference!

he would be in contention for selective grammar or would be academic scholarship material because he’s got the quality of teaching is better and there is minimal disruption

I think that people make mistake assuming that in grammar schools ( selective) is like in selective private.

I don't think anyone who doesn't know your local schools and child can answer this. Look at your local schools and look at which you think would and wouldn't suit your child's needs. Look at the relevant benefits of the private versus state in both primary and secondary for your area. I think the affects of both schools very much depend on the schools around. For example a shy child might thrive in a small state primary just as much as they would thrive in a small private primary, but they might struggle in a big state secondary, but not struggle in a small private secondary. Conversely a small primary might give lots of support as they begin their education journey, but a small private secondary might offer less GCSE options than a big state primary!

Seriously?😂

My dd went to a private junior school. We looked at a range of secondaries, we're in catchment for a comp which we certainly could have imagined her going to! As it was she got a place at a grammar school - and afaik no one who got a place at any of the few GSs in our area turned them down in favour of private... apart from one which was a long bus ride the ones hereabouts aren't that good.

your child should learn and hopefully happy wherever that is