Cant decide between grammar school and local/comprehensive school.

I would check what the comp offers before making an automatic decision to go to grammar.

Our local comp (admittedly genuinely outstanding) offers Latin, ancient history, engineering and classical civilisation as well as graphic communication, photography, PE and child development among others. As a “nerdy” kid, my oldest DD loved it there and got all 9s at GCSE. She also had an unusual arts subject in the mix. My other DD also loves it there with a much more arts based GCSE selection.

Neither of them went down the 11+ route as this always appealed more.

The decision is far more than grammar or not.

Depends on your ds alot. Is he a 'nerd' mostly interested in academic stuff with his head in a book- send to grammar OR is he an allrounder - social interested in sports and outdoors - then I d send local

A
C
B

I'd put B as my first preference. Your DC can walk, will have lots of opportunities and greater potential for local friends.

My DC1 had a similar choice between a grammar place and comprehensive within walking distance. They chose the comp and finished Y11 with GCSE grades that would have put them in the top 10% of the grammar school cohort. It was evident from very early on in Y7 that it was absolutely the right decision.

Ok I've changed my mind now I've seen your data. Your grammar looks poor relative to local grammars to me and your comp looks high achieving plus has all the other benefits!

Assuming detentions aren’t given for minor misdemeanours then B. Apart from anything else it saves your son about 7 - 8 hours a week in travel. And you both like it.

i think you’re overthinking what’s been said. I never meant they LITERALLY said these people went to Oxbridge I said they speak of them all in one high performer language - Oxbridge as shorthand. It’s very clearly spelled out what their final destinations were. You’re getting your knickers in a twist here. No one has been misled at any stage.

It doesn't matter which degrees they are doing or if they would have got an offer if they'd applied. A school cannot say "We had X students accepted at Oxbridge last year," if in actual fact they had Y number of students accepted at Oxbridge and Z number of students accepted onto medicine, dentistry and veterinary courses. Well, they could, but that would be a lie. The number of students accepted into Oxford and Cambridge isn't flexible based on what the school decides counts as almost as good as an Oxford or Cambridge place.

A lot of top studnets from comprehensive schools will do A levels in high performing sixth form college or private schools. So whatever Oxbridge number will be distorted.

It very well might but I don't think anyone said 13, highest mentioned was 12, and that was described as a "superselective grammar". The other mention was a "non selective state school" that "nearly did as well", so less than 12. And it's possible that PP was talking about a sixth-form college, many of which are huge.

But my assertions are that (1) there is a huge variation in Oxbridge outcomes between state schools, even comprehensives, (2) which students attend these schools isn't completely random, in particular many or most at the schools with great Oxbridge outcomes will be there because their parents went out of their way to put them there, and (3) these parents are disproportionately likely to be on mumsnet.

We agree that there do exist state comprehensives which have put 12 or more students into Oxbridge in recent years. The question is not how common these schools are (we agree not very common). The question is how likely is it that at least one of the parents at these schools is on mumsnet and is willing to post. I maintain: very likely.

Also I’m not the one that said 12

And it’s not that they “didn’t get” iOxbridge offers - they chose alternative destinations without applying there.

Ok picky - medicine, dentistry and veterinary

So they didn't get an Oxbridge offer? They might include them in their own mind but you can't say that you had 12 students getting into Oxbridge when actually you had 6 Oxbridge offers and 6 students who went to study medicine somewhere else. Why pick medicine anyway? Dentistry is more competitive than medicine.

13 Oxbridge entrants would put a school in the top 20 state/grammar schools in the country though, so that really is very exceptional. If I could be bothered to go through the list of 20 and filter out all the grammar schools and 6th form colleges to find which ones were comprehensive secondary schools, maybe I could even pinpoint the exact school.

I think that says more about the bias in who reads and posts on mumsnet than anything else.

Our school also include medicine within their”Oxbridge” numbers as they are just as competitive to get into. That can mean 12 Oxbridge quality students even if they end up at Imperial for example.

Considering there are 3458 secondary schools in the UK and only 12,470 undergraduates at Oxford and 12,940 at Cambridge, I find it quite amazing that there are 2 local comprehensives near Mumsnetters accounting for 24 Oxbridge entrants. If we divide the total undergrads by 3 for the average degree course, that's an average of 2.4 entrants per year group per school. It's very impressive indeed to have 12!

B. Don’t underestimate the huge benefit of how close it is, sounds like a much richer environment and it’s a clearly a perfectly fine school for academic kids if some are going to Oxbridge from there.

The only very tiny reservation I might have is that you need to be sure that behaviour and discipline are good and that kids who don’t want to learn don’t disrupt things for those who do, especially in earlier years if not yet streamed (I speak from my own personal comp experience).

@sashh We can see that they do enforce the ebacc from how they group GCSE subjects , as described in the OP. So it seems unlikely that they have a large number of students sitting GCSE maths early. OP could ask them to check on that though. But going on what we know I would say that is a poor A8 score for a grammar and not worth the downsides the school.

There are lots of reasons that A8 being lower is actually because the school is doing things that benefit the pupils. Eg maths GCSE. If you take it a year early then you take further maths the school's A8 for that class plummets.

Maths is double weighted.

This is why at comps the top maths set might sit further maths the year before GCSE maths.

If they offer a wide range of subjects and don't force the ebacc that also impacts A8.

Why is the attainment 8 (64.1) so low at the Grammar school? Do you live in an area where it is fairly easy to get in to grammar schools? I don't think the A8 or the P8 score at the grammar is worth the extended journey and lack or extras. The attainment 8 score at our closest (admittedly super selective) grammar is 84.1. One of the comps has an A8 of 64.4 near me.

OP I think your heart is set on B. Your DS sounds keen on both A & B. No point in journeying to C if your DS isn’t in love with it. The stats suggest A isn’t great. Progress 8 are overrated and can be manipulated. But the range of scores you have given make me think the grammar isn’t worth the travel. It means friends are more spread out. Fine for some kids, less good for others. Key thing is where your child will be happiest and will be most likely to find his tribe.

Honestly, you can only make the best decision you can at the time. You can never know for sure, and there is always the possibility of change.

I think you think B is best.

Persist absence at the grammar is 30%? That is very high. That means 30% of kids miss more than 10% of their education.

There will always be some kids who have long term health issues and miss lots of school, so all schools have some persistent absences, but at 30% it looks like a lot of mental health problems or bunking off. Looks like a lot of unhappy children.

My take on the data of students staying on into 6th form being higher for A than B may be due to higher entry requirements for A. My DS goes to grammar and lost half their class between year 11 and 12 due to grades not high enough to stay on and all went elsewhere to study A levels.