Kingsdale Foundation School

If you want academic success, your kids are reasonably extroverted and you want 13:1 pupil:teacher ratio, it's a decent school.

It's not great for special needs or children who don't like rules.

I quite liked the central atrium and the pod.

They are high achieving but they are a bit up themselves.

It's all smoke and mirrors, IMO.

We looked at it for my eldest and didn't like it at all, although he ended up choosing it for sixth form. I have to say his time there did not change my original opinion.

I find the 'scholarships' elitist and disingenuous - I have yet to hear of one child who has been offered a music scholarship without formal lessons, and the offering for non-scholars, as presented by the head of music at the time, was laughable. The 'amazing' building was also, as far as I could tell, pretty much a fancy roof plonked on top of the old 1960s/70s school. (They have now completed an actual new building to accommodate the vast hordes of students - that school is freaking massive!!!)

I don't know if they tell prospective parents and students at the open events (they certainly didn't when we were looking), but all pupils are ranked, based on achievement and behaviour, which might do it for some people, but made me 😱 when I found out. And two years ago, when my son was there, they didn't have a full-time SENDCo, which wasn't presented as temporary... presumably despite it's size they didn't have much SEND to deal with? 🤔 🤷‍♀️ The SENDCo situation may have been rectified now, but it's not exactly ancient history!

To each their own, but my dyslexic, rule-abiding youngest will not be going there. He would get utterly lost and overlooked! He'll be going to a much smaller school that treats students as individuals.

They do test all the kids, but only to ensure they are in three even bands of achievements. So, your kid might do really badly, but get a place because there were fewer kids in that achievement band.

However having a proportion devoted to sucessful scholarship applicants within the bands does skew things somewhat, as does having any tests at all - even if the results don't matter. Middle class parents are more likely to send their darlings to be tested.

But if you look at the value added scores, it's clear they are teaching kids much better than the average state school.

She was obviously very unimpressive to them @mugboat... I still wonder what on earth happened on the day given her trajectory since.

Every time anyone tells me she's musical I still look a bit sceptical because it did make me think she must be completely tin eared.

wow! that's impressive and she didn't get a scholarship?! I'm astounded.

For aptitude tests, you really shouldn't have to do masses of prep. that's the whole point of it supposedly being an aptitude test.

Glad she's fulfilling her ambitions now though!

show up, and know about them. and have parents who will take you.

I don't get why you're arguing with me.

OK then.

Any school that sets tests for entry is at least partly doing it to up the number of middle class kids they are taking. You can go along to an aptitude test without having had expensive music lessons or maths tutoring of course, and this is what the school will say when challenged, but the schools know what sort of parents are most likely to put their kids in for the test in the first place.

I don't think you can have an aptitude without having skill.

When they pick choristers for cathedral choirs, they don't expect them to sight sing in Latin... they do expect them to have a nice tone, be able to sing quite loudly and to have a very, very good ear. Those are skills even if they haven't been taught.

That sounds amazing

I'm in London. Kids at my kids primary school on FSM got reduced or subsidised violin or guitar lessons and there was a choir. So not nothing, but your kids school sounds exceptional

The Kingsdale music test doesn't always throw up what you expect. DD2 (15) is now very music-oriented - national youth choir, national children's orchestra, government funded place at specialist music school, etc etc.

However, in Year 6 when she applied, Kingsdale gave her a half scholarship for music, which wasn't enough to get her in.

She was about grade 5 on her first instrument (flute) then, and grade 3 on her second (cello). We hadn't prepped her for the aural tests as we aren't musical.

Should we have prepped her? Yes, probably. And we shouldn't have let her play her second study as it counted against her as less advanced.

We spent several years afterwards thinking she probably wasn't very musical, despite her enthusiasm, because of the lack of scholarship because we assumed that 'Kingsdale must know'. In fact, she still thinks she's a bit rubbish at music because 'Kingsdale didn't want me'...

I guess what I'm saying is no music test is perfect!

DD's state primary had a musician-in-residence and had huge amounts of music on offer (for free) across a range of instruments, plus choirs, sessions at the Globe and Southbank.

Outside London I think there may well be a deficit, but in London there is an incredible amount of free musical opportunities available in schools, at weekends. You just have to show up.

I wasn't really talking about money, just opportunity and knowledge. and also saying that someone can have aptitude for something without having skill... :)

Yes, me too (I wish it was better funded for all children). Not much opportunities for most children these days, unless parents have the right knowledge.

maybe, though I found out I have an aptitude for music at age 41 when I started to learn the piano... I got to grade 3 in 18 months. From absolute beginner. I am a crap singer by the way, and so nothing was identified in my skills or abilities when I was a child.

Now I know what I am looking for, I am encouraging my own children to pick up and play instruments... one of them is similar and learning piano and clarinet very quickly... had I NOT decided to learn the piano myself, I would have not known I had this aptitude... nor would I have gone out of my way to look out for musical opportunities for my own children.

They want the intake to be evenly distributed between ability bands each year, so they test everyone and take an even number from each quintile (perhaps quartile). The real test of a good school is the value-added school -how much they deliver on results based on the nature of the intake and the are in the top 7% country-wide. They also have excellent pupil to teacher ratios (13:1).

It's a large school, and quite impersonal. If you are focused on academic results it's a good choice. I've heard it's not so great if the children aren't rule followers.

They have a maths scholarship as well as half and full music scholarships.

It's a shame many of them won't know they are muscially gifted though. This is something that parents have to be looking out for... and many won't be...or perhaps they will notice their child is musically gifted but not until the child is a bit older... to old to be skilled enough at any instruments to pass a secondary school musical aptitude/skill test.

x posted with Ohcrumbs, that sounds better than I had thought re the offer when you are in the school

This is definitely true and there are tons of musical gifted children who have no access at all to music lessons bar perhaps a term of group guitar lessons, funding of state primary schools being what it is.

Round my way there are tons of kids doing violin (or the really strategic ones trombone etc) to try to get music scholarships and then dropping it, ie middle class parents doing what they/we do, in trying to do the best by their kids, but that option just isn't open to everyone.

I do think it is good that there is a state school in the area committed to a great musical education, I just wish it was more accessible for all children

A musically gifted child can learn to sing quite well from the Internet @mugboat and most state primaries do encourage singing at least. And you can get in on voice. A lot of our local primaries do Young Voices, for example.
Neither DH or I are musical and the way we found out all 4 of our DC are is by trying stuff for free at the local music trust. Now we did not qualify for the free lessons, but other kids in their classes did. There are opportunities around in London if you look into it.

Except they don't.

DD doesn't take exams at all - we know what level she's playing at as her teachers have some students who do - so there was no sheaf of exam certificates, and she only offered her first study in the tests. Not sure she even mentioned the others.

Plenty of singers get full scholarships at KFS - something that you can reach a high standard in through church choirs, or just singing at home with YouTube... and doesn't require thousands spent on instruments.

The MAT I'm not sure you even can tutor for - DD had never done anything like it before sitting the first one in Y6.

Every part of the tests is scored and then the overall score is ranked. Only the top 10 or so get a guaranteed place on offer day, all the others are the lottery system - but it doubles your chances. Even if you get a place via the banding lottery, you will get the scholarship extras if you have scored high enough for a full or half scholarship.

You can also apply for a scholarship once you are in the school if you are interested.

The school have a huge music department - 3 GCSE sets - partly because that is a condition of the scholarship. Obviously the school want to ensure that they have children who are sufficiently interested to make music their priority once in the school.

There are a ton of musically gifted children in London due to a lot of conservatoires, music trusts etc. and lots of orchestral opportunities too, some are free if you apply. Plus there are a ton of professional musicians living in London and their kids tend to be quite gifted too.

when I was looking around at the schools in my area (I am not really in your area, I am further SE than you I am guessing) I was really impressed with all the schools I saw. I am glad it's the same for you. It's still nerve wracking on offers day, then again on their first day of sch in Sept.

I am sure Kingsdale is a great fit for many children, I just have a bee in my bonnet about so-called aptitude-based scholarships, as you might be able to tell. And for us, it wouldn't be worth the trek as there are plenty of great schools closer by.