Kingsdale Foundation School

"They are in the top 7% country wide".

Where does this info come from please @DadJoke ?

I live locally and have known lots of children who've gone through the school. I wouldn't say it's exceptional in any regard. Of the children I know best - two had to re-take one or more A levels.

Yeah I wasn't very convinced by that as a defence tbh. I was just trying to think what the counter might be to my view that it's a really poor score.

If you look at the various distances for banded schools you’ll usually see that the distances for last place offered are further at each end of the scale. Rather than getting the 300 kids that live nearest the school, most of whom are likely to be in the middle, you can only admit a certain percentage of them but ensure you are admitting more able kids who live further away. To be fair, it also means they are taking a certain percentage of kids who are scoring below the average, and the system is known as fair banding.

the 2 top progress 8 scores in Bromley borough are 2 superselective grammars... so even with high achievers, there is definitely value to add

I suppose a defence of the progress 8 score is that they have a high achieving cohort and the cohort are meeting their expectations so there's not much value to add. But with their banding they should have a balanced cohort surely. In which case they ought to have some kids making progress. Maybe not an issue if you have a high achieving kid.

I know a few people with kids who've been at Kingsdale and none of them overly sing it's praises. I've never quite understood why people get so enthused, especially with those Progress 8 scores. There are under subscribed schools in Lewisham getting better scores than that.

DD only sat one banding test for a Harris but it seemed to be a percentage from each band, each with a different distance - are you saying they set it to give a desired number in each band?

Gosh, machiavellian!

I didn't put that school first as I couldn't see how to calculate the chances of her getting in...

So by admitting a set percentage from each band, on a distance criteria, you can reach out further for your more able kids rather than risk lots of more local average kids. Private Eye has spent quite a long time puzzling over the kids that Harris Crystal Palace manages to admit.

Banding tests are on the normal distribution aren't they? So you'd expect most to be in the middle?

Their A Level average result is also in line with national and borough average (B- in old money). I don't think there are any valid progress scores for A Level at the moment due to covid and teacher assessed grades (no baseline).

I don't get the hype to be honest. I'm sure it's absolutely fine and kids enjoy it (it's bang on average in fact) but having to game your intake so much to get average scores - the same as the totally non selective schools nearby in lewisham- means there's something a bit odd going on. They also had their knuckles rapped by Dfe for excessively high pay for the head (one of the highest for a single school trust in the country) and I think had a legal challenge to their admissions process at some point as well.

@newmum1976 I trust your source far more than mine. That's not good. It makes Kingsdale look not as special from my POV. I withdraw my previous remarks.

No idea where that comes from but their Progress 8 is 0.1, so children make the progress you’d expect- nothing special. In fact, it’s one of the worst Progress 8 scores in Southwark. www.compare-school-performance.service.gov.uk/schools-by-type?step=default&table=schools&region=210&geographic=la&for=secondary&basedon=Progress%208&show=All%20pupils

I looked here:

"A level value added score Top 8% nationwide"
I can't really find anything much more useful.

schoolopinion.co.uk/london/southwark/kingsdale-foundation-school-6320

Their progress 8 is around national average. It's not 'good'. Their attainment scores are high but that's because of their selection policy. It makes me laugh they compare it to the Borough average when loads of the kids are from out of Borough, it's totally meaningless.

Yes and we are at a primary near Kingsdale and the school has a woeful music offer. DC is in year 6 and they've only just started offering peri lessons. There's not even a choir.

It's selection by privilege, that's why I loathe it. Sure, those opportunities are in London, but very few are free and they all involve a significant investment of parental time and energy.

Banding tests are also a form of stealth selection but you're bloody stuck with them everywhere locally apart from Sydenham and FHB (which are both good schools and actually have a strong music offering as well).

I had the same report from a friend on sports as well! Mixed boys and girls totally dominated by the boys.

I should say I speak as the parent of a scholarship winner. But sadly one with SEN so the above posts apply.

I’m talking about the scholarships. Most of the local schools do the banding so, while it does of course have the same benefit for all schools, it’s so ubiquitous that it’s a lost cause.

I don’t think they are, are they? Their progress score is barely above 0.

This is excellent work, but how are their value-added scores so good if that's the case?

It isn’t necessarily mad re banding test because they only assess non verbal reasoning. I have one DC who is amazing at verbal reasoning but overthinks non verbal reasoning and although typically does extremely well academically, would probably not do that well in a test that is just non verbal reasoning.

Thanks. She didn’t go to Kingsdale, I’ve realised I didn’t make that clear. I knew she was in the lowest band as we were trying to get in on the waiting list.

I've heard some very bad things about that school. lots of low level disruption, kids walking out of classrooms etc

good sleuthing

I think their banding test is very dodgy. If it was done accurately, they would have a spread of high, low and middle prior attainers, but as you can see they don’t. Their results are quite good but only because they take mainly high attainers. My DD took the banding test 5 years ago and was put in one of the lowest bands, despite this Summer getting nearly all grade 9 and 8 at GCSE.