Detentions as a punishment

This is where the problem is. You and the other students respected your education… you were late, so entered the classroom quietly and got on with the work.

What happens now… some pupils either don’t come to the lesson because they can’t be bothered or they come to the lesson late and cause disruption to the learning of others.

One example from this week: pupil arrives late, I do not challenge it at this point because I want them in the lesson, sat down and learning. However, this student purposefully sat in the wrong seat, refused to get pen out, refused to start the task, despite me trying to support 1-to-1. Then told me to F off 🤦‍♀️ This happens in nearly every lesson for this child, every day. This student is having multiple interventions to support them and to understand their behaviours but so far this isn’t having much of an impact. I am ensuring I am following all advice given on how to work with this student, including me having conversations with this student about how I can support them in my lesson, but again this isn’t having much of an impact. I have been teaching for years and this is becoming more and more common with more and more students.

Some parents are also refusing to engage with the school, even going to the extent of blocking the school’s phone number. Or you speak with the parent and they say ‘yeh, they’re like that at home and I don’t know what to do with them!’

I’m not saying detentions are the solution but I do understand that schools are trying to enforce boundaries and get the children to take responsibility for their own behaviour, as well as trying to understand the behaviours of these children and put support in place.

I understand you are advocating for your child but what about the impact on the other kids in his class when he walks into lessons late? That disturbs the flow of the lesson and it disturbs other kids.
You are looking at this through the lens of only your child and not the teacher or other kids.
Not sure you understand what it's like to teach classes of teenagers either. That's when hormones kick in and disruptions increase, teachers and schools need a tool to manage that ie detention. They simply don't have the time or resources to adapt a sanction individually to each child depending on his/her needs.
You need to support your child to be on time for lessons and complete all homework. If not already getting support for his ADHD then this needs doing asap

Re maths workings...

My brother could do a lot of Maths in his head. Make massive leaps. Wasn't a problem until his A levels, where it looked like he had got the correct answers, but not done the question, so was investigated for cheating. Fortunately found innocent of cheating (the school could produce lots of evidence of his previous work with the same leaps) but he ended up on antidepressants.

Its a good habit to get into.

But the OPs question... if he's struggling due to his ADHD contact the school.

I would contact the learning support in the school. You say he has a diagnosis of ADHD so they should be able to work with him and you to get effective systems in place.

There is probably a homework timetable telling him/ you when it is due in. Look through emails for it or ask the school to send you another copy. Having that prominently displayed at home might help.

My dc were given lockers in the SEN department. One thing we did was to put a spare pencilcase set in the locker so if he did forget to bring a ruler to school then he could go and get it at breaktime. Similarly having a set at home so he didn't have to get the 'school' set out of his bag to do homework.

Sit down with him. Figure out the things that he is finding difficult and then think together and possibly involving the school about solutions to the issues. Or put them on here and teachers/parents can probably make suggestions.

You need to work with the school in the situation he is in now unless you plan to return to the culture in which you grew up, but presumably there are other factors driving you to remain here. Also there is no guarantee that your old school is still using the same approach. Schools in the UK are stricter now but that is partly because parents are more permissive which might be ok when you just have one or two children to manage but becomes chaotic if there are 30.

My dc need peace and order to focus effectively. They don't get that if the teacher is constantly stopping the class to deal with late comers, people forgetting things, messing around in class.

You can't seriously believe that a school wouldn't discipline (and ultimately dismiss if no improvement) a member of staff if they were late. Once because their car broke down or similar would be a raised eyebrow and not a problem but punctuality is absolutely crucial in schools for obvious reasons. As it is in almost every other job...

We only give break detentions if the student is late to school, they never lose their lunch either. However we do have a robust and clear detention system which parents are fully aware of before their child arrives. It's fair and transparent and as a result we get almost no kick back from families. I would add we don't sanction for no homework either, just reward those that do it and point out to the ones that don't that they are making things harder for themselves by not practicing at home. We have excellent homework completion rates as a result (we do have a homework club as well for those that need access to IT etc).

Its shows understanding of the work.

And because if you don't show your working out the pupils lose marks in exams.

@SweatyLama - if you look on any school website, there will be a Behaviour Policy. This will give you the information about how each school implements rewards and sanctions to change/deal with behaviour.

@SweatyLama “It's boring to show working simple problems and the child will start to hate math for it. I am sure you would not like it.”

I’ve always had to show my working(s). I remember doing so in primary school, even though I found Maths easy. Showing a clear method is part of the pleasure.

It’s not just the destination but also the journey.

If there isn't any punishment then some kids don't respect the rules at all.

You don't appear to have ever been in a classroom.

It’s important because if the answer is wrong and there are no workings shown, the answer gets 0 marks.

If all the working shows the method is correct, but - for example - if there’s a simple arithmetical error near the end, his answer might get almost full marks.

The older your son gets, the more complicated his Maths questions will be. If the answer is wrong he and his teacher will be able to look back over his solution and see where the mistake was.
It could be that he didn’t understand how to do it (important, and needs further work) or just made a mistake in a calculation somewhere in his solution.

Often at secondary school the answers are given at the back of the book/online, or certainly used to be until recently, so it means he can check his work himself if he doesn’t get that answer, to see where he might have made a mistake.

The ability to check your own work (whether or not you got the correct answer) is a very useful skill, in life not just in Maths. Even if the numerical answer is correct there might be an alternative, shorter, way to solve the problem which is worth considering.

That makes no sense.

Look at speed limits.

Detentions are normal. I don’t agree with the way that they are handed out these days for forgetting a ruler or not having glue in your pencil case. But there has to be some level of discipline (or “punishment” as you put it). I think detentions should be used for extreme cases, and it should also be an opportunity To get to the root cause - as you end up with pupils that are always in detention with zero sign of improvement.

How can the teachers support him to not leave homework at home though? You said you are already helping him at home but he still left his homework at home. What do you want them to do to support him to remember it?

On the contrary, my school decided to adopt a method where there were very few sanctions and the focus was on conversations with the children to try to persuade them that behaving appropriately was both better for them, and better for everyone.

Behaviour went through the floor. Classes were massively disrupted as teachers pandered to disruptive students. Kids couldn't learn effectively. Teachers quit the school as behaviour was appalling.

It was horrible. I have never been so close to quitting teaching.

We reintroduced sanctions for poor behaviour and behaviour improved.

Kids need firm boundaries.

High school is where children become teenagers and hormones, distractions and everything else can get out of control if tough measures aren't enforced. DS is starting next year and the school is known to be very strict and hand out detentions even for forgetting a ruler. My DS is not disruptive but he is forgetful and I think this will teach him to wake up and learn a sense of responsibility. It's preparing for the real world. Primary of course is very different by nature as more nurturing but they need more discipline in high school.

You haven’t experienced the teenage years yet. You may well change your mind. My DS was pretty easy going through his teens but there were times when I would have loved it if he had had a detention.
After school detentions are often an inconvenience to parents if it means children miss their bus or it disrupts pick up and after school activities. It is a deliberate act so that the parents engage with the discipline.

He lost one homework assignment and forgot another at home. What he really needs is support, not punishment
You can provide that support by helping him pack his bag the night before, so he doesn't forget his homework. One of mine needed a lot of support with organisation when she started secondary school, so I provided it as long as she needed.

Parents don't generally consider that teachers in schools have way, way more experience of dealing with bad behaviour than they do.