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Original poster

Detentions as a punishment

507 replies

SweatyLama · 04/10/2024 20:40

I didn't grow up in the UK, but my children were born here. This year, my DS started secondary school for the first time, and I discovered that they have a system of punishments in place. Is this a common practice in all state schools in Britain? I really don't like this system ( I mean punishments) and find it degrading and outdated.

OP posts:
Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 21:59

BlackOrangeFrog · 05/10/2024 21:38

So, her again, you haven't answered the question of how to actually deal with the situation.

Just "it shouldn't happen".... And nobody should ever be punished or have consequences for their behaviour

I'd bet you'd be the first person calling the police if someone was in your house burgling...or was drunk driving and crashed into your car ... Someone took a disliking to your son and harassed him ... Someone online groomed your son ...

It's very easy to sit here, high and mighty and idealistic. But the rest of the planet live here and every culture has peer pressure to behave a certain way.

It's human nature to punish bad behaviour .. you don't pick a fight with the bigger stronger opponent .

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I suggest going back to school. I have no desire to develop the topic in this thread. In short: in order for society to be healthy, it must first be educated correctly. So that the motivation not to commit crimes is internal, and not external, based on fear of punishment. This is not yet in our society.

OP posts:
Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 21:47

Anonym00se · 05/10/2024 21:24

So you don’t abide by British laws, or the Highway Code, or workplace rules? How very anarchistic!

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what british law is it illegal to be late? or to not do homework? or to have an untied tie, the wrong shoes, to forget a ruler? i don't remember any such laws.

OP posts:
Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 21:45

BlackOrangeFrog · 05/10/2024 21:31

Right... Okay, so the natural consequence of stealing a million pounds is...? The guilt?

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how does this relate to the topic of conversation?

OP posts:
Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 21:43

clary · 05/10/2024 18:39

So you don't think there should be any kind of sanction to a student who comes in late to class? This has to be a wind-up. Do you have any idea how disruptive it is when students come in late? I think the answer must be no.

Actually students turn up on time bc they want to learn; but teachers need to have some kind of sanction for the few who are late. Why are you so against this? It's not an issue if a student follows the rules. I assume you are in favour of there being rules @SweatyLama ?

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I studied at a school where children were sometimes late. And it did not cause much inconvenience. (We had a rule, if you are late - your problem, teachers were not distracted by pupil was late). I think that we are all people and being late can happen to anyone. If one of the children is late regularly, then you can ask the parents to help their children not to be late. It works with usual kids who wants to study. So yes, this has to be a wind-up.
Why are you so against this?
because i wouldn't want to be punished. it's humiliating. A person who was late has already punished himself by the fact that he was not with everyone and missed something important.

OP posts:
BlackOrangeFrog · 05/10/2024 21:38

SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 19:55

@clary thanks for your massage. I want to comment
I am still not clear how you would deal with the student described by a PP who is as tall as a fully grown man, swearing and throwing the furniture. Do they not deserve any kind of sanction?
I'm certain that no one deserves punishment, especially children, even if they don’t behave as expected. Every bad behaviour has its reasons, and in an ideal world, there should be an adult who helps uncover those reasons and offers support. There are no inherently bad people – something or someone made them act in a way that causes harm to others. In rare cases, this may be innate, and such individuals should be isolated for society’s safety, but not punished, as they aren’t to blame for being born that way. This isn’t just a suggestion, but something a humane society should aspire to.

How can this be applied in schools? I don’t think it’s something that can be achieved overnight. Children with oppositional behaviour need support from specialists – psychologists and psychiatrists – who can also guide teachers on how to work with them. For most teenagers, all they need is to be treated with respect. Punishment isn’t about respect.

As for the teen in question, teachers shouldn’t be left to deal with him, especially if he’s aggressive – that’s dangerous. Special services (perhaps social care) should look into why the child is behaving this way. A teenager shouldn’t pose a risk to other students or teachers, but they should receive help in a specialised school. After all, they’ll soon be an adult and will be living amongst us.

So, her again, you haven't answered the question of how to actually deal with the situation.

Just "it shouldn't happen".... And nobody should ever be punished or have consequences for their behaviour

I'd bet you'd be the first person calling the police if someone was in your house burgling...or was drunk driving and crashed into your car ... Someone took a disliking to your son and harassed him ... Someone online groomed your son ...

It's very easy to sit here, high and mighty and idealistic. But the rest of the planet live here and every culture has peer pressure to behave a certain way.

It's human nature to punish bad behaviour .. you don't pick a fight with the bigger stronger opponent .

BlackOrangeFrog · 05/10/2024 21:31

SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 21:14

In real life we face natural consequences, not punishments from people hired to help us gain knowledge.

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Right... Okay, so the natural consequence of stealing a million pounds is...? The guilt?

Anonym00se · 05/10/2024 21:24

SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 21:14

In real life we face natural consequences, not punishments from people hired to help us gain knowledge.

Show quote history

So you don’t abide by British laws, or the Highway Code, or workplace rules? How very anarchistic!

Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 21:14

NPET · 05/10/2024 13:04

How do you make that out? We're only "punished" if we do something wrong, the same as in "real life". Children / young people need to learn about life and not do the things they're being punished for.
Of course if the school seems to be exceeding its rights you can complain, but I doubt they are.

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In real life we face natural consequences, not punishments from people hired to help us gain knowledge.

OP posts:
Miffylou · 05/10/2024 21:07

DuesToTheDirt · 05/10/2024 18:16

Now I'm thinking you're just trying to wind people up.

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Yes, it is such a ridiculous comment that I was thinking the same.

Marblesbackagain · 05/10/2024 21:05

SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 20:55

@Marblesbackagain
There are horrific human beings that hurt children, kill and torture people with absolute no rational reason.
If you study the history of even one criminal, you will see where it all began. There is always a painful past. It does not justify the actions of the criminal, but if society had helped this human earlier, when he needed help, he would not have done such horrific things.

Eh bollox. I have an interest in crime and psychology and plenty of serial killers have perfectly normal backgrounds. If it was just so easy to identify the cause trust me society would. You really have an exceptional naive attitude .

Babbadoobabbadock · 05/10/2024 21:05

So you don't have a single solution ? Just excuses and criticisms of those who actually do the job ??

Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 20:58

Babbadoobabbadock · 05/10/2024 20:47

Still waiting on your wonderful solutions op ?????

After that:"What a load of shite"?
Your comments do not encourage communication with you. So sorry... i bunned you.

OP posts:
Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 20:55

@Marblesbackagain
There are horrific human beings that hurt children, kill and torture people with absolute no rational reason.
If you study the history of even one criminal, you will see where it all began. There is always a painful past. It does not justify the actions of the criminal, but if society had helped this human earlier, when he needed help, he would not have done such horrific things.

OP posts:
Babbadoobabbadock · 05/10/2024 20:47

Still waiting on your wonderful solutions op ?????

Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 20:47

PensionPuzzle · 05/10/2024 20:40

I hate to break it to you but kids in 'specialised schools' still receive sanctions including detentions.

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I know

OP posts:
Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 20:46

Unexpecteddrivinginstructor · 05/10/2024 12:54

So what if your son would become one of the quarter of children who didn't learn and just hung out in the reception all day? Would you be happy with that? It sounds like the school are putting in strategies in the hope that he won't become one of that quarter of children. It worked for you but would your son make the same choices? Maybe with some discipline that quarter of students would not have turned to crime.

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Children in happy families do not sit in the lobby. Those who sat in the lobby need a special approach. They were not interested in studying, they were interested in where to find money for alcohol or drugs. Our teachers would not be able to help them. Even giving detentions.

OP posts:
PensionPuzzle · 05/10/2024 20:40

SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 19:55

@clary thanks for your massage. I want to comment
I am still not clear how you would deal with the student described by a PP who is as tall as a fully grown man, swearing and throwing the furniture. Do they not deserve any kind of sanction?
I'm certain that no one deserves punishment, especially children, even if they don’t behave as expected. Every bad behaviour has its reasons, and in an ideal world, there should be an adult who helps uncover those reasons and offers support. There are no inherently bad people – something or someone made them act in a way that causes harm to others. In rare cases, this may be innate, and such individuals should be isolated for society’s safety, but not punished, as they aren’t to blame for being born that way. This isn’t just a suggestion, but something a humane society should aspire to.

How can this be applied in schools? I don’t think it’s something that can be achieved overnight. Children with oppositional behaviour need support from specialists – psychologists and psychiatrists – who can also guide teachers on how to work with them. For most teenagers, all they need is to be treated with respect. Punishment isn’t about respect.

As for the teen in question, teachers shouldn’t be left to deal with him, especially if he’s aggressive – that’s dangerous. Special services (perhaps social care) should look into why the child is behaving this way. A teenager shouldn’t pose a risk to other students or teachers, but they should receive help in a specialised school. After all, they’ll soon be an adult and will be living amongst us.

I hate to break it to you but kids in 'specialised schools' still receive sanctions including detentions.

Marblesbackagain · 05/10/2024 20:39

@SweatyLama and whenever you wake up from that dream of the land of OZ. There are horrific human beings that hurt children, kill and torture people with absolute no rational reason.

Discipline is simply consequences every person needs them especially in the teen years but hey you do you.

However you live in society which has agreed normalities and you are doing your son no favours by teaching him them. He is now at a disadvantage of not having consistent messages. I suggest you consider that in however you go forward.

Babbadoobabbadock · 05/10/2024 20:39

I have nearly 30 years experience in secondary OP, you're talking utter nonsense

coffeeandteav · 05/10/2024 20:36

Op what do you think of this school?

Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 20:36

Babbadoobabbadock · 05/10/2024 20:06

What a load of shite

Sorry to disappoint you

OP posts:
noblegiraffe · 05/10/2024 20:34

SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 20:25

The legend about detention is just a cover 😎

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I think I know this kid better than you.

In fact I think I know kids in general better than you.

Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 20:34

CrispieCake · 05/10/2024 19:46

I agree with you, OP, that primary schools try, despite being under resourced and hugely over-stretched, to work with children to address their issues, whereas secondary schools all too often punish children for struggling.

I think there is too big a jump between primary school and secondary school. Personally, I don't think the secondary school environment is suitable for 11yos. The expectations are too much and the environment isn't nurturing enough. They should not be taught in the same school as 18yos, it's too big an age range. There was a lot to be said for the old middle school system which had 9-13yos taught separately.

At least one person understood me. Thank you.

OP posts:
Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 20:28

Phineyj · 05/10/2024 20:23

But you are paying for these courses presumably? It's one thing wasting your own money. Quite another thing wasting someone else's!

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public education of our children is not free, we pay taxes for it

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Original poster
SweatyLama · 05/10/2024 20:25

noblegiraffe · 05/10/2024 19:29

😂 I have taught him for over a year now and his sudden punctuality coincides with a new lateness policy and with him telling me that he is being punctual because of the new lateness policy.

I can assure you that he does not like maths more than he likes vaping in the toilets with his mates.

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The legend about detention is just a cover 😎

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