Please or to access all these features

Secondary education

Connect with other parents whose children are starting secondary school on this forum.

Are textbooks (printed or digital) not used any more? How do students revise?

160 replies

ParentOfOne · 19/09/2024 09:49

We are looking into secondary schools and are a bit shocked at what seems to be the trend of getting rid of textbooks in the UK.

This has been a bit of problem in primary school, when our child asks for help, we explain something, she says the teacher explained it differently, but doesn't know how... because there is no textbook!!

At primary school it's not been anything over which to lose sleep, but in secondary it might be different.

  • Is this really a trend all over the country?
  • Across both private and public (we're not considering private, just curious)?
  • I don't care whether the material is printed or online, but are students expected to revise based on the notes they take in class? Taking notes for a detailed history class might be harder than for a maths class. But how about subjects like biology, which require all kinds of graphs and images?
  • What are your thoughts?
  • Have you bought textbooks? How do your children revise?
  • Getting rid of textbooks might be a way to cut on costs, but I suppose there is plenty of free material online to explain fractions logarithms WW1 etc

I know many people who are university lecturers, and they all tend to think this trend is a catastrophe, because by the time they start university students are not used to the concept of studying a textbook, they expect that anything can and should be summarised into a few bullet points on a slide.

OP posts:
Thread gallery
9
senua · 19/09/2024 13:35

I wonder if school libraries or local council libraries have those books.
I don't know how to tell you this but ... not all schools still have libraries.

Button28384738 · 19/09/2024 13:34

DD in year 9 and has never brought a textbook home. Only reading books.
All resources are online

Not sure if it will change when she starts GCSEs next year

TorroFerney · 19/09/2024 13:33

My daughter has just got a new history textbook , she showed it me as the front cover (it's a4) is just Hitlers face which is quite arresting given it's so big. She also has a primer for An Inspector Calls. Perhaps we are living in the 80's here! As others have said though, they have so many better resources now. I remember being at junior school in the late 70's (private) and our maths books weren't in decimalised currency as they'd not been replaced.

EBearhug · 19/09/2024 13:33

I don't mind not having text books - we did back in the '80s, but there wasn't much choice then. I'm currently doing Welsh evening classes, and following the WJEC course book (available online or as a hard copy) has made it much easier to switch to a different provider, and to catch up on missed lessons. It doesn't mean we only do the book - IME, teachers will add extra materials especially if it's clear the class is struggling with a new grammar point or something.

Last year, I qualified as a CELTA teacher - it was clear what the syllabus was. We didn't have to use any particular resources, but some were recommended - video, voice, books, including text books, websites... it was similar about 3 years earlier, doing a management diploma. Syllabus and outline materials available online, with reading lists ("reading" including video and podcasts.)

We didn't get told the syllabus back in my schooldays - I suspect at least one of my A-levels would have been a grade higher if we had, as I could have better focussed my revision.

So I don't think text books are vital, as long as it's clear a) what to cover and b) where to find at least a basic outline with suggestions for further reading.

ParentOfOne · 19/09/2024 13:23

So basically those who can afford it have the upper leg when they can buy more books? Oh what a surprise.
I wonder if school libraries or local council libraries have those books. Some university libraries have textbooks which cannot be borrowed but only read on site, specifically to allow everyone to study on site.

OP posts:
aramox1 · 19/09/2024 13:14

None here. But at gcse level I bought all the CGP revision guides which apparently have everything in. A level we were told to buy 1-2 (££) books per course. State comp. I bought maths books for ks3 /4 too.

drastikaction · 19/09/2024 13:14

For English texts, it varied. In y7-9 the school provided the books, but they weren't allowed to bring them home. For GCSE Eng Lit, we were asked for "voluntary contributions" to cover the cost of books they could bring home and scribble in the margin etc, or else we could buy our own if preferred. "Voluntary Contribution" is code for "please pay if you can afford to and school will cover the cost for those that can't".

SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun · 19/09/2024 13:12

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 19/09/2024 11:33

This is interesting. Can I ask what happens about set texts for English? Do pupils get a whole book to read or are they just given part of the text as a handout or online? I'd be sorry to think that pupils aren't expected to read whole books, although I'm probably wearing rose-tinted glasses here. Maybe they never did, even when it was expected and possible because they had the whole novel, poetry anthology, play or short story collection.

I spent a significant amount of my time at school (many decades ago) studying Latin and Ancient Greek. The ancient literature doesn't go out of date, oddly enough, although from time to time the teaching approach changes so there used to be new introductory textbooks, grammars, dictionaries etc. No idea if these are now online or if the old printed texts are still handed out.

Some of the books - I assume out of copywrite texts - they were given a printed out paper copy of the book they could then annotate. They also also slow read them in class.

My DC also had texts as books if previously been mentioned which they were doing - as well as York guide or other none specific board guides, revision guides for that board - sometime audio books or film if appropriate as well.

With some years teacher this was nice extra - with others vital. DS has half course with no teacher at all and DD2 had a very disorganise poor time management new to teaching teacher who did miss teaching certain things. It meant they kept their grades static - though missed out on improving them - while many of their peers despite being in top English set did really badly.

Words · 19/09/2024 13:04

@JaninaDuszejko ShockShockShock

JaninaDuszejko · 19/09/2024 12:45

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 19/09/2024 11:33

This is interesting. Can I ask what happens about set texts for English? Do pupils get a whole book to read or are they just given part of the text as a handout or online? I'd be sorry to think that pupils aren't expected to read whole books, although I'm probably wearing rose-tinted glasses here. Maybe they never did, even when it was expected and possible because they had the whole novel, poetry anthology, play or short story collection.

I spent a significant amount of my time at school (many decades ago) studying Latin and Ancient Greek. The ancient literature doesn't go out of date, oddly enough, although from time to time the teaching approach changes so there used to be new introductory textbooks, grammars, dictionaries etc. No idea if these are now online or if the old printed texts are still handed out.

My DSis did an English degree in the 90s and claims she didn't finish reading any of the novels she studied.

drastikaction · 19/09/2024 12:32

ParentOfOne · 19/09/2024 11:22

@drastikaction Mine isn't nostalgia for printed books. Like I said, I don't care much about whether it's printed or online. But I do care about having a resource to go back to to check and revise.

Revising just based on your own notes is very inefficient and risky (what if you didn't note everything down, missed something, etc).

Looking for resources yourself online or in a library is very inefficient: so many to choose from, with different styles and levels of detail, plus not all online resources are of the same quality.

It's good that textbooks exist at least for 6th form. I wonder if that will be a bit of a shock for some people because it will be so new to them?

My sons didn't use their own notes for revision - they would have struggled to do that because their bits of paper weren't neatly filed and often just loose in the bottom of their bag. Like you, I found it difficult to get used to, but both of them got a string of top grades at GCSE and A Level. They revised using online resources that were provided by their teachers, including links to things like BBC Bitesize and Seneca, and by doing past exam papers, and looking things up online.

aodirjjd · 19/09/2024 12:20

And whilst I can’t speak for calculus cell biology definitely would be out of date in the 5 years it takes to write and publish a textbook. You needed to be referencing latest research in 2nd year onwards in your exams not just basic concepts of biology. And in coursework you are expected to reference relevant studies even in first year so reading textbooks wouldn’t be enough.

sw10krg · 19/09/2024 12:20

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 19/09/2024 11:33

This is interesting. Can I ask what happens about set texts for English? Do pupils get a whole book to read or are they just given part of the text as a handout or online? I'd be sorry to think that pupils aren't expected to read whole books, although I'm probably wearing rose-tinted glasses here. Maybe they never did, even when it was expected and possible because they had the whole novel, poetry anthology, play or short story collection.

I spent a significant amount of my time at school (many decades ago) studying Latin and Ancient Greek. The ancient literature doesn't go out of date, oddly enough, although from time to time the teaching approach changes so there used to be new introductory textbooks, grammars, dictionaries etc. No idea if these are now online or if the old printed texts are still handed out.

Mine had to read the whole book

aodirjjd · 19/09/2024 12:15

ParentOfOne · 19/09/2024 11:47

That's interesting. Were you at least given clear indications of where to study / revise? Were you told to look up a specific book / website etc? Or was the approach "I have explained how the cell works, now it's up to you to find one of the hundreds of books available to revise"?

The lecturers I spoke to were, in fact, a combination of older people and foreigners who studied in a very different education system.

I think more advanced courses often make reference to papers published in scientific journals if the topic is too advanced or new, but this shouldn't apply to the first years of an undergraduate course. Maybe teaching methods have changed, but I think that calculus and cells and chemical compounds etc still work today the same way humankind taught they worked 3 decades ago, no?

We got given reading lists but it was normally a list of peer review studies and technical books which the library would have 5 copies off with 100 students (and would be cost prohibitive to buy).

Basic diagrams to understand how cells work etc was covered in lectures. It might vary across universities /courses but really at undergrad level you are expected to go find your own resources and read a broad range and form understanding, not just memorise what the lecturer has given you on a worksheet/textbook. If there was a formula/concept that I didn’t understand from lectures and I needed a more basic explanation than technical papers I would normally use Wikipedia even back then!

mrssquidink · 19/09/2024 12:00

DD is in year 12, no textbooks for GCSE but the school did recommend various revision guides (and for the sciences we could buy them through the school for a reduced cost). They did all have their own copies of set texts, again bought at reduced cost through the school (they were encouraged to write notes in them so they couldn’t really reuse them).

For her A levels, she has been asked to get textbooks and I have just spent a small fortune on them (best part of £180!).

I did my A levels in the 1990s and I can remember not getting A level textbooks until year 13 as the school could only afford one set. In fact my history teacher lent me some of his own books to help me prepare for the Oxford entrance exam.

Octavia64 · 19/09/2024 11:51

Also I went to university in the UK thirty years ago.

We did not use textbooks. (Social sciences).

We were given reading lists which included academic books and papers from the first year of my study. Some of those books were textbooks but we certainly didn't have one textbook for the whole course.

It would be more:
This week we are studying the Phillips curve. Required reading: macroeconomics by Phillips chapter 6, obscure academic paper 1, obscure academic paper 2, essay title is "to what extent did the Phillips curve break down in the 1970s".

Octavia64 · 19/09/2024 11:47

In the U.K. although there is a national curriculum only schools run by the local authority need to stick to it.

This means that in years 7,8 and 9 there is no national list of what is taught when.

In English each school chooses their own books/poetry etc. In maths most schools use online resources like Dr Frost maths or Sparx maths. The online resources are usually aligned to the curriculum at the school and will have videos and questions for each topic.

At gcse level many subjects do have textbooks. However for example, history has 4 options. So there is a textbook per option (medical history, Nazi germany etc)
Textbooks are expensive (50 pounds plus each in my subject) and state schools can't afford new ones.

In maths (my subject) we have in school about 6 sets of gcse textbooks, built up over 20 years. Most are now a bit out of date (eg chapter 20 is no longer examined sort of thing). There's 10 gcse classes and if you want a set of textbooks for your gcse class you need to get into school in late August and grab them out of the cupboard before anyone else does.
We'd never let any of them go home.

We do ask students at the end of year 10 to buy a revision guide and workbook that is aligned wihh to what is currently on the exam. This tells them what is on the exam and has questions (and answers in the back) for them to revise from,

In years 7,8 and 9 we expect them to revise from the online resources. So for example in my school I have created a curriculum in Dr Frost. Students and their parents can see what topic is taught when. It goes week by week so they can see each week. Each topic has a video or two with it and some example questions going from very easy to very difficult.
That's their textbook,

ParentOfOne · 19/09/2024 11:47

aodirjjd · 19/09/2024 11:24

I know this isn’t really what you asked. But my experience of university is that quite a lot of subjects don’t use textbooks either. I’m in my 30’s and most of my studying was online resources because textbooks are out of date before they are published (this was a science based subject). I imagine it’s probably even less now than then.

so I don’t think kids will be disadvantaged when they get to uni for having not used textbooks much.

That's interesting. Were you at least given clear indications of where to study / revise? Were you told to look up a specific book / website etc? Or was the approach "I have explained how the cell works, now it's up to you to find one of the hundreds of books available to revise"?

The lecturers I spoke to were, in fact, a combination of older people and foreigners who studied in a very different education system.

I think more advanced courses often make reference to papers published in scientific journals if the topic is too advanced or new, but this shouldn't apply to the first years of an undergraduate course. Maybe teaching methods have changed, but I think that calculus and cells and chemical compounds etc still work today the same way humankind taught they worked 3 decades ago, no?

OP posts:
SmileyHappyPeopleInTheSun · 19/09/2024 11:36

Revising just based on your own notes is very inefficient and risky (what if you didn't note everything down, missed something, etc).

Most families get hold of at least a few revision/course guides by buying - sometimes second hand - or by getting from students finished with them.

Also there are on-line sources these days - bbc site good - and for science there often you tubers who are recommended often for certain exam boards.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 19/09/2024 11:33

This is interesting. Can I ask what happens about set texts for English? Do pupils get a whole book to read or are they just given part of the text as a handout or online? I'd be sorry to think that pupils aren't expected to read whole books, although I'm probably wearing rose-tinted glasses here. Maybe they never did, even when it was expected and possible because they had the whole novel, poetry anthology, play or short story collection.

I spent a significant amount of my time at school (many decades ago) studying Latin and Ancient Greek. The ancient literature doesn't go out of date, oddly enough, although from time to time the teaching approach changes so there used to be new introductory textbooks, grammars, dictionaries etc. No idea if these are now online or if the old printed texts are still handed out.

aodirjjd · 19/09/2024 11:24

I know this isn’t really what you asked. But my experience of university is that quite a lot of subjects don’t use textbooks either. I’m in my 30’s and most of my studying was online resources because textbooks are out of date before they are published (this was a science based subject). I imagine it’s probably even less now than then.

so I don’t think kids will be disadvantaged when they get to uni for having not used textbooks much.

ParentOfOne · 19/09/2024 11:22

@drastikaction Mine isn't nostalgia for printed books. Like I said, I don't care much about whether it's printed or online. But I do care about having a resource to go back to to check and revise.

Revising just based on your own notes is very inefficient and risky (what if you didn't note everything down, missed something, etc).

Looking for resources yourself online or in a library is very inefficient: so many to choose from, with different styles and levels of detail, plus not all online resources are of the same quality.

It's good that textbooks exist at least for 6th form. I wonder if that will be a bit of a shock for some people because it will be so new to them?

OP posts:
drastikaction · 19/09/2024 11:15

@ParentOfOne as others have said, secondary students use various online and printed resources. However, many Sixth Forms do provide online access to text books. It costs a similar amount to printed books, but they don't go out of date or get lost.

Printed books are vintage. See https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/business-48998789.amp. I bought my son printed books for his A level courses, but he barely opened them

My son is now at uni and he gets free online access to electronic books via his uni library - much better than having to shell out hundreds of pounds like I did at uni.

Textbooks

Education publisher Pearson to phase out print textbooks

Pearson says students will only be able to rent physical books as it makes all products "digital first".

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/business-48998789.amp

sw10krg · 19/09/2024 10:49

Both of mine have/ had textbooks for most subjects for GCSEs and A levels.
They get given them but we have to pay if they lose them or don't hand them in when finished with them.
I think they had them less in y7 and 8- can't really remember! Independent schools.

HawaiiWake · 19/09/2024 10:47

Depends on schools, not an issue between private or state. Primary which was private had this issue which is a nightmare. As suggested , CPG and bonds books, do look at eBay or exam ninja website for deals. Secondary school depends on subjects so sciences and English have textbooks, some have booklets, some just notes and slides.

Swipe left for the next trending thread