how common are detentions at secondary?

Homework levels seem to vary massively between schools. My sister works at a comprehensive and she says she doesn't set much homework at all— the evidence is it doesn't help that much and it's stressful, and teachers don't enjoy marking it either.

ParentOfOne

Odd that you didn't, right?

Odd that you would think that I could be bothered to continue a 'discussion' to someone who thinks that its appropriate to call others names.

As far as I am concerned you no longer have any points worth replying to.

Have a good night.

At DD1 and DD2's school there is a strict homework policy and timetable. If a teacher assigns homework over this, the kids can complain and the assignment will be removed.

At DD3's (different) school they seem to load as much homework on as they can!

DD1 and 2 go to the local grammar. DD3 goes to the local comp but it's the only comp among the academy's schools - not sure if that makes a difference or not.

At my school we would never give a detention for getting work wrong. We would set one for not bothering to do it. They do get detentions for being late to lesson but we are still be lenient with the 7 here as they are still all getting lost.

Behaviour wise certain serious things would be an instant detention, for talking our of turn, getting out of their seat etc it's a reminder, then a recorded warning, then a detention on the third strike.

DD is at St Bede's (I'd already name changed for this thread); we're in catchment for North Cambridge Academy, which we didn't feel was a good fit - I appreciate we were lucky to have the option.

I've asked DD, and she doesn't know anyone who's had a detention so far; there are less significant sanctions (demerits) but these are used sparingly; again DD doesn't know of any Y7's who've had one yet.

Other parents whose children haven't always understood the rules initially say that for a first offence their child has been told how to correct their error (these were minor infractions, not significant disruption or bullying); sanctions aren't the first reaction.

We looked at several Cambridge schools last year, but I know less about the village ones.

I've just started at a new secondary, which is (I think) firm but fair with sanctions. I would have given a sanction for one of these, but not the other two, and I wouldn't have given a detention for any. Some colleagues might, but I think it's because they're weak practitioners to be honest.

I did give out detentions to year 7 this week for lateness to lesson, however, the children in question claimed they 'couldn't find the room' when it's their tutor room. They were late from break - a friendship group of them. It was appropriate, and the DT was only a break time one.

I also gave some out for lack of homework. I remind them every day of what the homework is, when it's due, and ask if anybody has any questions or issues completing it. There is no excuse/reason for non-completion then, surely?

I do think it's school dependent though, and even staff member dependent to be honest. I am not very sanction-heavy in general, and much prefer praise and to build decent relationships based on mutual respect. My classes know they can have a bit of fun with me, but only because I expect them to meet behaviour and work expectations in return. I don't have much in the way of disruption in my lessons because of this.

DD has just started Y7 and has had two pieces of home work so far. A small list of maths questions and a science task which was to design a safety poster. School have said homework is only set for 3 subjects (maths, science, English) until October half term, to ease them in. This is a state grammar school.

@Cocostardust ,

I think this is ridiculous.

I think part of it is that she has got herself in a tizz and is misunderstanding what is required. Have you looked at the 10 minute homeworks? Do they look like 10 minutes or much longer?

Does she use a homework diary. I would go through that with her and help her get organised.

To be honest, I would do the less useful homework with her (tell her what to write) and help her complete the more important tasks.

Then I would ask for a meeting with her form tutor or head of year and explain exactly what you have on this thread and ask for a solution. Most schools have a gentle transition into Year 7, some even have no homework until half term in the first term.

@ParentOfOne ,

‘If your child told you: "I am always cold, I know that other kids are OK but I am always cold with the school coat and fleece, why can I not wear warmer clothes?" what would you tell them? Would you tell them to suck it up because the headteacher knows best? Would you move them to another school? Please, do tell me.’

OK, honestly, I would first check what they were wearing and how they were wearing it. Then I would suggest a thermal vest under it (I am sorry, if they feel the cold that badly and take off two layers when they get to school, they won’t suddenly be too hot).

I would also suggest that they walked faster to generate heat.

In the unlikely event they still complained of cold, I would take them to a doctor and investigate if there was an underlying medical cause.

If there was an underlying reason, I would then e mail the form tutor and ask if we could agree to a suitable modification. If not, I would probably tell them to just live with it, no one can be totally comfortable all the time.

I teach my children resilience. Yes, they get support, but sometimes they are told to suck things up. Again, it is a balance. If they get one unfair detention, I tell them to live with it and explain that it his a bit of their time and there are worse things in life. Obviously, if I feel they are genuinely being treated unfairly, I discuss it with the school.

You could have blown me away with a very detailed answer on why a headteacher dictating the maximum level of warmth is acceptable because reason and achieves objective in method.
Odd that you didn't, right?

Can I ask you, too: If your child told you: "I am always cold, I know that other kids are OK but I am always cold with the school coat and fleece, why can I not wear warmer clothes?" what would you tell them? Would you tell them to suck it up because the headteacher knows best? Would you move them to another school? Please, do tell me.

A school environment is completely different to an adult environment, but what remains the same is that how one perceives temperature can be extremely subjective and vary wildly from person to person.

No, you did not answer the question. I asked you why, I asked you what is achieved by dictating the maximum warmth and by preventing students from wearing warmer clothes. You did NOT answer this. Your only answer was that it's a uniform school and the school decides. This does not answer my questions at all.

If your child told you: "I am always cold, I know that other kids are OK but I am always cold with the school coat and fleece, why can I not wear warmer clothes?" what would you tell them? Would you tell them to suck it up because the headteacher knows best? Would you move them to another school? Please, do tell me.

ParentOfOne

When you start resorting to name calling you have nothing left to say.

@ParentOfOne ,

‘I often go out wearing a rolled up shirt while my partner is next to me wearing a down jacket. It's incredibly subjective. Oh, wait, maybe one of us should be sent to a maximum security prison for having violated the approved numbers of layers???’

As I have repeatedly said, a school environment is completely different to an office or you and your husband.

‘You totally dodged the question, and threw in some unnecessary Latin just for the sake of it. The crucial point remains: why the censored should a school decide how warm is warm enough and should prohibit a pupil from wearing warmer clothing? WHY?? PLEASE SOME OF YOU BOOTLICKERS TELL ME WHY!!!??’

I actually answered the question. The Latin is a commonly used phrase to mean that you have delegated parental authority to the school while your child is there. The school are a uniform school. That is what parents have signed up for. Pupils can wear between 2 and 4 layers of the uniform to achieve the desired level of warmth.

This isn’t cruel or unusual!

@Newbutoldfather
"They can wear up to four layers. This is a trip to school in the uk, not northern Canada."
Irrelevant. It is not for the authorities to decide how many layers of clothing an individual should or should not wear. Whatever dress code policy they want to enforce, they can enforce it by still leaving students the ability to choose how many layers.

I often go out wearing a rolled up shirt while my partner is next to me wearing a down jacket. It's incredibly subjective. Oh, wait, maybe one of us should be sent to a maximum security prison for having violated the approved numbers of layers???

Insulation isn’t caused by jacket thickness!
True but irrelevant. Yes, of course, a top of the range down jacket with 850 fill power down will be thin but much warmer than a thick fleece from the supermarket. The point remains that it is not for the school to decide that a child must not wear warmer clothes.

"If it were really an issue, do you think it would be Aaron and Levon vs Jesmond or that lots of parents would have complained? There don’t seem to be any other parents or children who have contributed to the articles"
Irrelevant. Some parents don't care. Some are terrified of the character assassination and misrepresentation in the media. An idiotic policy isn't right just because few people complain. I don't know how many people complained or not - do you?

Unless you want to home ed, you place your child’s school in loco parentis. That means they can dictate this.
You totally dodged the question, and threw in some unnecessary Latin just for the sake of it. The crucial point remains: why the censored should a school decide how warm is warm enough and should prohibit a pupil from wearing warmer clothing? WHY?? PLEASE SOME OF YOU BOOTLICKERS TELL ME WHY!!!??

What does this teach, what does this achieve, how and why?

This is totally hyperbolic
It is not. It is very telling that you are unable / unwilling to answer the very banal question above. I can certainly answer why I am keen on certain policies. I am keen on a no-phone policy because phones are detrimental to the mental health of children and teenagers. I am keen on a policy which deters and punishes misbehaviour and disruption because avoiding those is crucial for learning (not much learning in a class of loud unruly children).

But dictating the thickness /warmth of clothes? Why? And why can't you answer that? Have you been beaten so much into submission that you lost your ability to stop, think with your own mind, and ask: why? where is the proof?

@ParentOfOne ,

‘The North Face choice may be questionable, but, before jumping to conclusions based on their own prejudices, bootlickers could do worse than look into the details.’

Bootlickers? Maybe you should wonder how Aaron got so much publicity for such a ridiculous dispute? A little deeper googling might serve you well.

‘The only coats that may be worn are the Jesmond Park Academy rain jacket and/or the Jesmond Park Academy outdoor micro fleece. ‘

They can wear up to four layers. This is a trip to school in the uk, not northern Canada.

If it were really an issue, do you think it would be Aaron and Levon vs Jesmond or that lots of parents would have complained? There don’t seem to be any other parents or children who have contributed to the articles.

In addition, I taught physics. Insulation isn’t caused by jacket thickness! In fact, some of the most expensive new ski gear is really thin. It is a combination of factors. But it is basically the air doing the insulating. So 4 good layers will do a lot more than his 36mm £200 designer jacket (that range, by the way, is a fashion garment. North Face’s actual ski jackets look nothing like it).

‘But can you please explain why on earth the school should dictate exactly how thick the padding of my child's winter coat should be?’

Unless you want to home ed, you place your child’s school in loco parentis. That means they can dictate this.

‘There is a difference between a discipline conducive to a productive learning environment, where pupils learn to apply critical thinking, and beating children into submission and getting them to switch off their brain, punishment after punishment.’

This is totally hyperbolic. No one is beating Levon, or even freezing him.

I would love to know the full other side of this story. Unfortunately GRPR prevents the school really saying.

Hi OP,

This sounds bonkers. DD has just started at another secondary in Cambridge (I do know Bottisham is just outside). They haven't even been given homework yet - that starts next week. But restricted to English and until half term. DD has told us lots about school; we know detentions exist, but she certainly hasn't had one, and I think you have to try quite hard to get one. So it definitely isn't all schools.

The North Face choice may be questionable, but, before jumping to conclusions based on their own prejudices, bootlickers could do worse than look into the details.

It seems that the uniform policy hasn't changed: https://www.jesmondparkacademy.org.uk/about-the-academy/school-information/school-uniform
The school still insists that

The only coats that may be worn are the Jesmond Park Academy rain jacket and/or the Jesmond Park Academy outdoor micro fleece.

I can understand banning designer items.
I can understand insisting on dark coats.

But can you please explain why on earth the school should dictate exactly how thick the padding of my child's winter coat should be?

Yes, a child could wear a thermal tshirt underneath, but then that might be too warm indoors.

Why not say, for example, that you must wear the school coat, provided by the official supplier which bribed the school of renowned quality, but that you can wear any kind of fleece or down underneath, as long as it's black or navy?

Please, o bootlickers, @Newbutoldfather @FrippEnos

could you please kindly explain what is achieved by dictating that a child must not possibly wear anything warmer than what a repressed headteacher who didn't get enough love from mummy very wise headteacher has ruled to be appropriate in their infinite wisdom??? I'm all ears.

My interpretation of rules which get so petty, capricious and pervasive is that individuals should switch off their brains and submit. Is yours different? It is no coincidence that cults and dictatorships are so pervasive in their rules.

And, again, to be clear, I am all for discipline and hard work. I am all for a zero-tolerance policy against disruptive behaviour, misbehaviour, missed homework, etc. But you do not need these extremes to achieve discipline and good academic performance, you absolutely do not.

There is a difference between a discipline conducive to a productive learning environment, where pupils learn to apply critical thinking, and beating children into submission and getting them to switch off their brain, punishment after punishment.

Oh, and remember that research is absolutely inconclusive on the benefits of uniforms, so any headteachers insisting otherwise is talking bull.

As a secondary school teacher I would say this is harsh. Contact your DDs Leader of Year (or whatever equivalent her school has) and explain the situation. You could also email directly the teachers who have set these detentions. Encourage the friends' parents to do the same. Only by questioning it will things potentially change. If the responses from these staff members aren't satisfactory and don't solve things, contact the Head. Behaviour polices are written to be followed & if staff are deviating for questionable things this isn't right. It's also not right that the students are being given so much homework. Again, contact the school. If they are a good school they will have a homework policy and this usually includes a timetable. Year 7 students shouldn't be overwhelmed three weeks in, often it's because departments don't communicate & set homework all at once, a timetable solves this issue. Do keep talking to the school, often things can be solved. I'd be interested to know what their responses are!

Its not as if North face don't actually make a black puffa jacket.

@FrippEnos ,

That story is particularly hilarious as it is so clearly confected. Not quite as good as my all time favourite in the Sun of yesteryear: ‘Freddie Starr ate my hamster’, but not too far off.

Can you imagine an actual doctor believing viral and bacterial infections are caused by a school coat not being warm enough, or not knowing that he could layer up?! And he clearly didn’t have a doctor’s note, or the school would have had to agree. And, of course, a North Face (the teen designer brand of choice) blue coat being an obvious substitute for a black school coat….

@ParentOfOne ,

‘I wasn't talking about giving boys the choice of trousers or skirts.
I was saying that girls should be able to choose. Any policy which forces only trousers or only skirts for girls is illogical and unfounded.’

How is that fair on the boys? That will definitely get challenged by parents of boys.

I taught at a girls’ school where a few of the girls campaigned for the right to wear trousers. They were quite impressive and the head ended up agreeing. No more than 5% of the school actually came in trousers. It was more the right that they cared about than the actual trousers. But, at a girls’ school, I agree with giving them the choice.

I find many of the sad face stories quite amusing.
In most cases they are families that claim to be very poor the kids have a smart phone and the article of clothing is a designer item.
But the truth is often the parents were aware of the rules before they went ahead and broke them, then decide to blame the school for following its own rules.

I wasn't talking about giving boys the choice of trousers or skirts.
I was saying that girls should be able to choose. Any policy which forces only trousers or only skirts for girls is illogical and unfounded.