Music lessons are a waste of time for most kids

Well I agree with the op. Since you think like this then perhaps you, like me, had pushy parents? (Or in my case, a pushy mother.)

I was forced to play the violin for years. Total waste of time. Never liked it as an instrument. Found it prissy and posh as a child. Made me stand out like a sore thumb in secondary. Thankfully, I wasn’t bullied for it, but I could have been. Why oh why did I suffer through it? Miss lessons for it. Have to spend hours practising. No idea.

On the other hand, I really liked playing the piano. That all said, I’ve forgotten it all now and don’t play anything. I agree the musician’s life is generally very poorly paid. But I suppose to people who love their instrument, it’s worth it, for it’s a vocation. And that probably explains it all. Same as for artists and actors.

Give your kids the choice. Some enjoy it, some don't but they wouldn't know if they don't have a go.

I wasn't goading you, you tagged me in your post. I didn't comment on any of your previous long posts even though parts of them were sneering 🤷‍♀️

I happen to know a thing or two about Shostakovich so I thought I was allowed to comment on his well known bio? 🤔

@Ubertomusic, I have a very good idea what musicality and musicianship are. I have been living it my entire life. I have also been instilling it in others for the past forty years. I am perfectly well aware that perfect pitch is not the be-all and end-all and know some excellent musicians who do not have it. I find, though, that those musicians who trot out the old chestnut that it is not necessary to have perfect pitch in order to be a musician are the people who are jealous that they do not have it. As I said in my first post about it, I did not even realise l had it until I was sixteen. I thought all trained musicians had it. It is useful to have, though, especially as a strings player. What l would really like to know is why you feel it necessary to keep goading people on this thread, especially those of us who are professional musicians. A lot of your views are very ill-informed in any case.

When I was growing up we were told music would be useful if we wanted to be primary school teachers.
I now live in a country where music is not a school subject at all and the country still functions very well.

Not if they enjoy it OP! Would you tell a child playing football is a waste of time, as they likely won't become a professional footballer? Doubt it!

*and don't belittle other professions, to make your point op. It is comparing apples and oranges.

The way you talk about the kid is also not really right. Ok according to you he's OK but not great. Are you the world expert on violin? Will you be sitting in the jury? If the kid is at the stage of going in an exam he probably might have gotten some feedback already or listened and compared himself to others on par. If not, well, then that's his delusion and having dreams and trying is not something to be looked down at. He might enjoy playing and become a teacher. You sound really judgemental and puritan.

we don't only need concert pianists around but also the local lady at the church, and the world is a more musical and beautiful place because they didn't think like you.

They have to, I know. I studied art but worked in IT to make a living. It's soul crushing.
There is no spare time when you have children.

I loved playing in brass bands when I was younger but I can't cope with the competitive culture of contesting bands, and it's hard where I live to find a non-contesting one with a full complement of players.

This is interesting @MaidOfAle DC finds brass banding and generally all things brass, including high level/competing ones (as well as individual brass competitions) very relaxed and so much fun whilst string ensembles extremely competitive.

Yes @Violinist64 musician's children are not necessarily musical but their exposure to music is huge all the same. Shostakovitch also said his mother was a very good teacher which is not always the case with musicians (or any other professionals).
Musicality is a combination of genetic variation and upbringing in any case - perfect pitch too (again, like everything else). Pitch, for example, has its sensitive development period very early, around the same time as speech development. This was shown by comparative research of tonal languages speakers, for example.

A musician doesn't have to have a perfect pitch anyway. Music is not necessarily about hitting the right notes, it's more about emotions, human relation, and eternal things. This is why real soloists are such a rarity - most people just don't have such personality so it doesn't matter if they play all the notes perfectly, they simply have nothing to convey to the audience. Phil Cobb plays the same old Salvation Army hymns as everyone else but his playing just touches your soul.

Sorry don't agree

i loved playing in the orchestra at school and joined an orchestra after school still going. Music can help kids who are quiet, lack confidence to gain the confidence and have a voice.

What?

the vast majority of child musicians will never really go anywhere with it but it’s not the point

I played violin and piano to a reasonable standard and absolutely loved playing in youth and uni orchestras and the tours we went on. I made friends I still keep today (at 46!). Right now I’m supporting my own kids by accompanying them and really enjoying it, as do they

are they going to become career musicians? No
is it still worthwhile? Hell yes

Not everyone who studies music does it to become a concert pianist you know op? Don't be so utilitarian. People can enjoy the process of reading, making and listening to music and arts and sports and other hobbies.

Actually there are lots of musicians and artists who do IT as a day job.

I am related to some and worked with a few.

Some spend their spare time playing in bands and creating then exhibiting their art.

I've also met singers whose day job were accountant. One had managed to tour with a couple of very well known artists.

@DwightDFlysenhower, my mother played the piano at about grade 5 level, as did her sister. My grandmother played the piano and church organ. I went to church from a very early age and loved singing. We had a record player and l loved it when music was played. My mother played and sang nursery rhymes and occasionally played The Parade of the Tin Soldiers, which was her party piece. It was not an exceptionally musical home by any means, but I always gravitated towards anything musical and could pick out nursery rhymes by ear on the piano from a very early age. I still find it easy to play by ear. Apparently, I was a very early talker, around six months. I don’t know if that is connected. As far said in my earlier post, I have also had varying degrees of hearing impairment from a very early age. It obviously has not held me back. I think perfect pitch is innate in any case. By the time I was eight, I was playing through every bit of music I could get my hands on, especially the hymn book. I was learning to sight read without even knowing it. I think I was a very musical child in a family where music was very much appreciated, but only to a certain extent. I was encouraged by family, music teachers and school without the pushing that has been so evident upthread. I had and have a passion and thirst for music that has always been there.
This leads me to @Ubertomusic. Yes, Shostakovich had all the advantages of a supremely musical home, but not every child of a musical parent is as musical as they are. In fact, it is often the case that they are not, which is the same for anything. An example of this is that my own mother is very mathematically gifted and thinks in terms of algebra on a regular basis. I, on the other hand, like maths, especially numbers and symmetry, but my level of mathematical understanding is very much of normal O level variety. I have certainly never found a use for Pythagoras or algebra since I left school.

He was listening to his mother playing music, teaching pupils and giving weekly concerts since he was in utero.

I began learning the piano just before my seventh birthday...I didn't know until I was sixteen that I had perfect pitch

I presume you must have had quite a musical household as well? I'd have thought seven was a bit late to develop perfect pitch without earlier exposure to music?

DP has it and I find it so interesting!

A boy called Dmitri Shostakovitch started formal piano lessons with his concert pianist mother aged nine and was accepted into the Paris Conservatoire aged sixteen. I wonder what happened to him ...

I’m not being serious here OP, I know you’re happy you did not pursue music etc, but the updates feel a bit like…. https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=efHzGxEzDQA !!!

@Baldrick23 that's lovely you got the choice of independent school or music school - especially since I'm sure your school had a decent musical offering for you to enjoy and then you could pick another career and play your cello on the side.

But what if - at 12 or 13 -your choice had been Chetham's or your local comp, which didn't even offer GCSE music? And Chetham's would (arguably) have got you better GCSE results in your other subjects too?

You might maybe have felt that, even if at the end you wanted a degree in medicine, maths or computer science, but loved playing too, Chetham's would have been the better choice?

That is more where my DD was coming from where she picked music school at 14- though she didn't go for Chet's.

The specialist music schools actually get quite good results compared to most 'ordinary' schools - and for a child who loves playing music, having so much of it in the day is fabulous, even if it won't make a career for her. She is so much happier.

Perhaps 'Jonny' at the school gates feels the same way? State school music is pretty grim right now - I'm really hoping it can be improved.

And some (mine) are no good at IT etc. Music has always been his plan and he knows the reality of it.

But doing IT is soooo boring and ugly 😂 quite unlike music and art.

If he's bright he will be able to re-train later if he wants to, or he could go into teaching, why not.

@MaidOfAle definitely sounds brassy. Loads of my son's mates are in top brass bands and he's getting quite in to listening to them.
Mine is a French horn player, recently he got paid for doing some mentoring at a youth orchestra on the tenor horn-an instrument he tried for the first time the day before 😂Brass is good for crossover.