Music lessons are a waste of time for most kids

To a degree I can see where you are coming from. My parents must have paid thousands and thousands of pounds for weekly music lessons for me and my siblings over many years. I learnt flute and piano to a reasonable standard and literally haven’t played either in years. The same goes for my siblings with their instruments, even my brother who was particularly talented and had a music scholarship at uni although I suspect his is more situational in that he doesn’t have space in his small flat but will return to it when it’s practical to do so.
None of the adults I know who played orchestral instruments when young ever play them now although some who learnt the piano still play that occasionally.

Learning an instrument does have many benefits though as long as you are realistic that they will likely just play for enjoyment.

Another vote for the OP being bonkers crazy nonsense. I studied music to degree level and have made a living with my qualifications and skills. Never ever wanted to be a virtuoso or even perform at all. Loads of work exists in the creative industries that doesn’t involve standing on a stage.

I suppose if this basis, there's a bit much point in us taking our children to ballet classes or football practice either, as most of them are never going to 'make it'. What these activities, like music, do though, is bring joy and adaptable skills, and those can be just as important.

My son loves music. That's enough for me. There's nothing wrong with doing something simply for enjoyment.

It's so depressing that so many people think hobbies are only worthwhile if you're good at them. My DD did piano for years and never got even to a grade 1 standard but she thought it was fun and it hugely increased her confidence. I'm sad you think this way. Also, just because a child likes a sport doesn't mean a 1:1 coaching session will make them excellent. As with music, you need a certain level of natural talent that no amount of 1:1 sessions will make up for.

Also once again, it's ok to just enjoy things even if you're bad at them.

Ok there is some truth to the OP. Disclaimer first: my nearly teenage son is past Grade 8 on 3 instruments and sings. He also goes to a specialist music school in the US on weekends. He was grade 8 on his main two instruments by age 11. He practices between 1.5-2 hours a day of his own accord. Is he going to be a soloist? Very very very unlikely. (He would love to be but it’s unlikely). In his instrument pretty much every major current soloist had made their solo debut with orchestra by his age and he’s only ever played with his school/county orchestra. He’s very good for his age but around the world there are many many many other kids far more talented.
Could he go on to a music degree and possibly find an orchestra gig? Maybe…
However he loves music, it has taught him discipline and perseverance. It has shown him what consistent hard work can achieve. He also has many musical friends and a rich extracurricular and social life through his music.

Son no 2 is roughly grade 3 on one instrument and grade 2ish on the piano. He isn’t massively musical. Is he skipping into practice daily? Nah. Does it always bring him joy? No. Sometimes but not always. But has he learned at age 8 to stick at something, watch himself get better, yes. For him the grades are a sign of his progress- that he’s playing harder pieces and making them sound good. So there are many valuable lessons to learn from learning an instrument. However, the biggest lesson both my kids have learned is that daily practice (even 15 mins a day) is absolutely crucial if you want to get better. And that sometimes you may not want to do it, but getting on with it is part of the process. Today he and I worked on a couple of lines for 20 mins. It wasn’t perfect and he was getting cross. But I know it will be better tomorrow and better the next day. And that process is a really valuable lesson.

Sure enough, but there is so much education throughout life that does not lead to a profession. Is that the point of lessons?

All three of our children have enjoyed music lessons.
One got a scholarship to a private school based on singing and music - and learned quite a lot.
He has a student job 10 hours a week as a musician despite studying a science subject at university. Serves him well.

No lessons are a waste of time if the student engages and makes progress.

My daughter is learning the piano. Doesn't want to do grades which is fine. Learning to read music and understand it is an important life skill imho. Not necessarily to make a living out of it

I went to primary school with a boy who at 8/9 was indeed a grade 8 violinist, he left at the end of that school year to go to a specialist music school. Won a scholarship if I recall correctly. Can’t remember his full name after all these years so no idea if he did “make it”, but he was very, very talented.

I know a few others who make a living out of music and more who learned just because they enjoyed it.

Im sure I've read somewhere that music lessons are beneficial in other learning arenas such as maths.

That was my understanding. Also I think a broad education is as important as an in depth one.

Hard disagree.
My kid is in the third year of a music degree, having done grade 8 age 15. He’s hoping to be professional afterwards. He has no desire to be a soloist and is already picking up bits of paid work.

I think if your sole goal is to be a concert soloist then yes that is very difficult. But for many people it isn’t. I’m a professional classical musician, took grade 8 at 11, played concertos through my teens and went to music college. Realised when I got there that actually I preferred a different way of making music and now have a varied career (a ‘portfolio career’ as they told us at music college) of performing, teaching and a lot of working in community and medical spaces as a musician. I earn enough to support myself - no it’s not big bucks but I have my own house and am able to pay for clubs for my kids etc. I teach teens preparing for music college and none of them have the goal of wanting to be a concert soloist, they just want to do something with the music. I also work on a project teaching my instrument to kids living in disadvantaged areas. Do they always want to do it? No definitely not. Is it teaching them perseverance, developing different areas of their brain, social skills etc? Absolutely. I’m sorry you are feeling so down about your experience. When you are that good that young it can feel a bit all or nothing and I really struggled with that for a good while.

A waste of time?
What is wrong to do it just for the fun of it?
With the grades as a target to learn more challenging pieces, just because many people do better with clear structure and goals. Not all, but many benefit from doing the exams. Boosts confidence. Also, from a certain grade it counts as a qialification. Something more for your CV.
They can play for the rest of their lives. Entertain themselves in a meaningful way. Connect with others. Use it to express themselves, to vent, to decompress. They will always enjoy music with that extra knowledge.
How can you possibly say that is a waste of time!
No hobby that challenges them in a healthy way, that they can take into adulthood can possibly be a waste of time!

Completely agree, based on my own experience. Not saying it's the same for everyone. I was made to learn an instrument, I played the piano and the violin at a young age and hated it and was terrible at both. I was then forced to pick another instrument so did the clarinet and was less bad at it (probably just relative because not as many people play it). Had to carry on all the way through school and eventually got through grade 8. I never played a single note of music again after I left school. I was/am so much better at sport than music but my DMum was just so set on music.

My parents forced me to take piano lessons. I had absolutely no interest in doing so. My mother thought I should have lessons and I should be grateful that they paid for them.
A thoroughly depressing experience for both me and my piano teacher. Neither of us got anything from the transaction. I have NEVER touched a piano since I was 'allowed' to give up lessons. By all means support interested children but don't force an interest that isn't there.

Yeah, I mean I use my A-levels in Chemistry and Physics all the time... NOT, despite working a lot in labs. My job is to deal with the IT that runs the equipment, not actually do the experiments.

I've never understood the grading system. I have a friend who went through a relentless number of lessons and hit top grade for piano but I play better than her. I play by ear and I'm very musical but never had the chance to thrive in this field.

I'm not sure if lessons really matter if someone just isn't musical. In that case, yes it is a waste.

I paused my daily trumpet practice to tell you that your thread title is bollocks.

It is not a "waste of time" to take lessons in something that you gain lifelong pleasure from. I never made conservatoire and it was obvious quite early at school that I wasn't going to. Yet I carried on with lessons and I still play in ensembles and practice daily in my forties.

Managing the parents' and child's expectations isn't the same as giving up on them full-stop.

Most kids don't want to be a concert soloist in a bloody orchestra lol.

I know loads of musicians as music is a passion of mine and none have formal qualifications (most taught themselves, had just local tutoring and play by ear so can't even read music) or dreams of being in the philharmonic... many have had success and made money from music though.

Music is for everyone.

I learned an instrument for fun. My teacher, free in school, didn't 'do' grades. Which was a shame, as I was the kid who put a bit more effort in if I had to pass a test. I played until I left for uni, just for my own pleasure. Can't read music anymore, but it's been nearly 30 years! I have taken up another instrument as an adult, teaching myself.

Both kids started learning guitar, but it was painful and I regret the wasted Saturday steins trying to get a 7yr old to practise. Neither dc, now teens, have any interest in music. Listening or playing, whereas dh and I love doing both.. they have no artistic desire or talent either. I'm not sure I bothered giving them half my genes; they clearly haven't been activated.

Most things taught at school are a waste of time for most kids tbh.

OP, it sounds like you might be heading toward changing your mind from later posts, but I have to say I think your view is utter rubbish for all sorts of reasons.

Most parents don’t think their child is going to become a classical musician. Sure, children don’t love every practice (I have three children each learning three instruments… they don’t skip to the piano every time), but the joy they get after a concert, or a good orchestra practice, or having fun jamming / playing around with a piece once they’ve mastered it really is pure joy. And when they don’t love it and practice is hard work, that’s also a great lesson. We actively talk about this in our house… I often use the example of (for instance) “remember that piece xxxx you found really hard to learn, and you cried thinking you couldn’t do it (yes, sometimes!!) and then practiced and persevered until you could and you were SOOO proud and now you love it…?” It’s given them so much resilience and confidence that they can achieve things if they keep going.

And I appreciate this is “success bias”, but I know (admittedly I did a fair bit of music to an averagely high level (ie grade 8 on a couple of instruments and beyond on one) so I do know music-y people):

• a close friend who is a successful (as in makes a living, enough to buy a small house etc - not rich or famous) opera singer - she did grade 8 on singing and piano in year 11
• a guy who did his music a level with me who also did grade 8 on his only instrument (double bass) in year 11 (on to diploma in 6th form) and he’s a pretty well known jazz session musician in NY
• a good family friend, bit older than me, who was a good school / local orchestras and competitions etc musician (couple of grade 8s, all in secondary school years) and is now a (literally) world famous rock musician
• My best friend who did all her grades at the same time as me (yr 11-13) and is head of music in a private school (did a music degree in a normal Russell group uni)

None of them stated any instrument before age 7….

So I also think it’s bollocks that a kid who isn’t grade 8 by 8 (what a load of tosh!) can’t actually make a living out of music if they love it!

Music is always worth it!!

I get you. I was a super keen musician at school, but also very sporty and academic, and didn’t have pushy parents. I had never seen music as anything but a hobby until my mid to late teens, but then it became more important to me because I was loving it so much, doing quite well and therefore getting lots of opportunities, which was making it become even more important to me because the opportunities were amazing, which made me love it more and so on. I began to wonder whether I could do it as a career as it was much more fulfilling that sitting behind a desk doing schoolwork.

A peripatetic music teacher, not mine but known to me, said to me one day that there was enough work available in professional orchestras in the country we were in for, I think it was, 6 musicians that played his instrument. That work was currently split between about 10 people and they were are supplementing with additional work. Another peripatetic teacher, again they didn’t teach me, said to me that if I was good at anything else other than music then I should do that, and that he only recommended that anyone did music if they weren’t talented at anything else. So people in the system do warn children about the realities of working in the music industry.

I still dream about being able to do music for a living, but I am fully aware I never put in the hours and didn’t have the talent to go very far. I fundamentally disagree with it all having been a waste of time, though. I had the most amazing of times as a teenager and it has provided me with the ability to take part in a truly fulfilling hobby as an adult. I play with others on more days every week than I don’t in everything from orchestras down to trios, and I mix with a lovely community of people, from those who are still in their teens to those that are older than my nan. It is so, so valuable a gift to have been given as a child. I am so, so grateful for all those free lessons, rehearsals, residentials and trips, all funded by the (local) government and charities. What they gave me at the time and now as an adult is utterly priceless.

My daughter plays the violin but it is purely out of interest, therefore a hobby. Not all interests and hobbies need to lead down a career path or be used to make money.

Music is amazing!