Music lessons are a waste of time for most kids

If I started swinging during Holst's Planets or Beethoven's Fifth, my conductor would get rather cross with me.
😂😂😂

Interestingly its based on the skills of an early keyboardist who was given the cello part with chord figures underneath and told to get on with it.

I am so glad that I am not the only one who sees the continuity between Baroque performance practice and jazz. The Baroque period's figured bass realisation and expectations of embellishment by soloists gives the classical musician the most licence to improvise, and those features, along with the "notes inégales" (Baroque swing time as found in Charpentier's Te Deum) make Baroque music the most similar historical music to jazz. The larger orchestras of the Classical and Romantic periods put paid to that because it's only in chamber music that you can get away with making stuff up. If I started swinging during Holst's Planets or Beethoven's Fifth, my conductor would get rather cross with me.

Music isn't just about careers and neither are sports. Many people do both at an amateur level and enjoy it. Many are semi-professional too. I'd also argue that there are many professional musicians(classical) making more than 30k. I know several personally who make way more than that.

Oh yes, I do like them from taiko to Reich's 18 musicians. Will def have a look! 👍

If you like watching drummers have a look at Elton John's farewell tour or his Glastonbury set. I think it is available online. His two drummers are phenomenal but wait until you see his percussionist - absolutely mesmerising. I was lucky to see it live.

I have always been fascinated by the drummers 😁

The top single sells roughly 100k "copies", top 40 - just 8000 on average (yes I know lots of streams count as one sale but still).

It's tiny compared to SM "popularity" of hundreds of millions. If we're talking about popularity as in "what people really like to listen", not "how much you earn from this".

But I see your point of classically trained pop musicians being at the top of official charts.

The world would be a sad place if children only did things they were going to name a living from.

Yes jazz is quite a skill based genre. Interestingly its based on the skills of an early keyboardist who was given the cello part with chord figures underneath and told to get on with it. Figured bass still crops up in the higher theory grades and is an essential requirement in the harpsichord practicals (not that many people take those.

But looking at the current UK singles chart I would say that the majority of songs on there are from artists (and I include the writers/musicians involved behind the scenes) who have studied and practised their craft in whatever form for many years)

Take a pop/rock drummer for example. Do you know that they spend many, many hours practising rudiments to get them right and to be able to use them in creative ways. Its very similar to playing classical scales.

I’ve not listened to the song so cannot say if it is shutout or not. But those who sustain a career usually have some level of training

I came across that song when a very musical and classically trained child auditioned with it - so no, they don't just laugh at these videos, they often take them seriously. The creators have massive followers base too.

So referring back to OP, it is actually possible to become a "soloist" on SM these days.

I find that the youngsters are quite discerning. They watch these stupid videos on tik tok to laugh at them but the artists they follow, buy tickets for etc etc are the ones with substance.

Unfortunately for us. 😂

Unfortunately for us. 😂

He dropped out very early.

Apparently the "artist" has had some classical training.

Oh but people move onto something else every two minutes or so these days. It's only us oldies who get stuck on this topic 😂

I was talking about training, not talent. You can measure training quantitatively, in hours and years, and you can measure success in hits leading to monetisation. But talent is elusive and not quantitative so I didn't mean talent at all.

Dua Lipa apparently has some classical training.

You can get millions of hits of a video where you fake falling over. It doesn't mean that person is a talented actor. It's short lived and people move onto something else.

It's not me - it's millions of hits that call it popular, by definition "music that people en masse consume". That's why jazz is not "popular music", it's very niche these days.

Dua Lipa and Taylor Swift - yes, and TS is classically trained.

Boy dropped out of his training before it got serious.

I never said there was none, merely that it was not absolutely mandatory for success in pop.

It might be what you call popular music. As with all genres, there is good and bad, talented and not so talented. (Incidentally though Boywithuke is classically trained)

I will direct you to artists such as The Last Dinner Party, Chappell Roan, English Teacher (grads from my son's conservatoire) Lottery Winners, even Dua Lipa (there are a lot of things that go into her seemingly simple bangers).

Hundreds and hundreds of millions of views, mega viral on TikTok m.youtube.com/watch?v=Mvaosumc4hU&pp=ygUQdG94aWMgYm95d2l0aHVrZQ%3D%3D

Where is orchestration? Where are session musicians?

This is what's called popular music now.

@Ubertomusic They may not have had long music training but they have other interests and skills. So for example in Queen John Deacon and Brian May studied electronics and physics respectively plus with their hobbies as teenagers showed they both had strong practical interests in acoustics as well as music. Without the practical interest in acoustics, music training and creativity Queen as a group wouldn't have been able to produce loads of hits.

There are some classically trained musicians who are/were pop stars e.g. Alicia Keys, Burt Bacharach but also trained in other music genres.

Also it is sometimes hidden until you look for it the fact that some artists/producers/song writers actually have classical music training.

Ds is a pop/theatre keyboard player. I would argue that the level of training for required to play a piece such as Rosanna or the music of Jason Robert Brown is comparable to classical players. (I mean play them properly, the drum part of Rosanna is notorious).

When you listen to a great pop song most of what makes the song great is the session players & orchestrations/band arrangments. Toto were primarily session players, Elton John (classically trained) has some fantastic orchestrators and band members). My son is currently being hired to play/arrange/orchestrate pop songs for other musicians