Marked absent if late new regulations

Which is correct - U is late after the register closed and regarded as a session absence.

X is attendance not legally required and isn't either an absence or presence, it's a 'shouldn't be here in any case'.

I wonder how long until people start arguing about the 7 Y codes and whether their cousin's aunt's wedding counts as a religious observation or not.

You're misunderstanding op's post - her school are saying the DC will be marked as absent instead of late - U (in my school) was unauthorised absence, not L for late or X for absent.

Any child who is on site should be marked present, not absent, however it is categorised.

Once again, if a child is absent it is a chunky process to chase the reason why (and in some cases sending attendance staff on home visits - yes, our school was mentally on top of this due to legit safeguarding reasons in catchment). I bet my house that they won't be chasing kids with an unauthorised absence due to - you know - actually being in school. Which rather makes a mockery of them being so finickity about their attendance processes if the ACTUAL absentees are getting the same follow up (ie not)

@sunhasgotthis a lot of this isn't really aimed at parents who look after their children well and have a bad day once in a blue moon and arrive at 9:20 apologetic and sweaty.

Absence is one of the most important pieces of info for safeguarding. Repeated lateness and being very late will get the pastoral team to take a closer look at what is going on for that child or family. Unless a child is in school, staff don't know that they are OK. Form time is really helpful for those kinds of conversations & being able to interact with the children in a more relaxed way than lesson time. Someone repeatedly missing form is a flag - are they being bullied, are they having transport, sleep, family issues etc etc

You're misunderstanding the guidance. If they arrive after the register closes, they will receive a U session mark but will be marked present in the period. They are therefore included on the fire list and will have a session absence recorded.

@whatsinanameeh that is not a problem with registering those who are late as late (either code L if late but arrive before the register closes which counts as attending for statistics or U if after the register has closed which counts as an unauthorised absence for statistics). That is a problem with how your school registers those attending interventions.

@sunhasgotthis there is a code for late after the register has closed (code U). For statistical purposes, that code is counted as unauthorised absence.

@SuncreamAndIceCream thanks.

Why not just have a code for very late then? There could well be different underlying reasons for persistent lateness than persistent absence. Seems daft to lump as same if actually trying to effect positive change.

Some firms used to dock wages for the whole morning if you were late, which encouraged people to call in sick instead if they were running late.

If someone is there before registration ends, they're still marked as late? Why?

It's not a good idea to mark pupils absent in the first lesson if they are late

My son goes to an intervention group 1 morning and their cover teacher marked him absent on the register by mistake, so the years Learning manager came to my house and told me he wasn't in school and I hadn't called in absence

Of course, I'm panicking, he's missing, because we only live five minutes from the school and I saw him going (work from home)

He was year seven at the time, and I was really alarmed until she went back to the school and said oh sorry he's where he should be. We've made a mistake

Yes, it's counted as a type of unauthorised absence.

An L mark is also a type of late mark, but it is used before the AM reg closes, and that is counted as present.

I think they are trying to make clear that being so late you miss all or part of a lesson or multiple lessons is materially different to being a few minutes late for registration.

A U mark has always been counted as absence for statistical purposes, but I think they are just trying to ram the point home.

I think it’s part of the crackdown on persistent absence/lateness. If being late counts as an absence, they can fine parents for it (and fines have just got more expensive and will be doled out more easily). I guess the logic is this might make parents get their kids to school on time?

(Not saying I agree with any of the above by the way!)

Excellent point

It seems odd to be treated as 'absence' rather than 'late' though. Do you know the logic behind this? Is this counted amongst reported unauthorised absence figures?

9am arrival = registers already done and you’re late. Late mark
9:30am = U. Worryingly late. This will be monitored.
New Keeping Children Safe in Education guidance. Nothing new, just making it very clear that persistent lateness/absence is unacceptable and is often an indicator or wider problems in the home.

"Late after register closed" was always counted as an absence for the statistics, although the code in the register was different from either "late before register closed" or "absent". Some schools kept the register "open" until halfway through the first lesson, to reduce absence rates!
The safeguarding/fire risk can be avoided provided the late-sign-in book or equivalent is taken out to any fire-drills.

U code doesn't mean someone is absent, it means they arrived after the register closed.

Should schools keep their registers open until later?
In terms of safeguarding & fire safety etc it's preferable to get them closed asap!

@Citrusandginger lates after the register had closed would still be marked as code U. I was using the comparison to code Y1 for unavoidable absences due to transport is authorised to show it is unlikely you would be fined for lates (rather than absences) in that scenario.

Thank you Endless. I'm relieved to know there is some sanity in this. Also good to know there is a separate code. As a one off, I'm happy to let it go, but I'd be more inclined to have a word over repeated errors.

This approach cannot be right as it is not accurate - if a child is late they are late, if they present they are marked present, if they are absent they are absent. At the time of the register they can be absent but if they subsequently arrive they have to be marked as present. I cannot see how a school can say a late student will not be recorded as being present in that lesson as it is not accurate.

@Citrusandginger absence due to transport that is normally provided for DC not being available for those who live outside of walking distance is authorised under the code Y1. So it would also be unlikely you would be fined for lates where provided transport is late.

@Birdingbear absences for illness are authorised and are not counted towards the 10 sessions unauthorised absence in a rolling 10 week period. There’s no such rule allowing 5 days unauthorised absence in a 3 year period either. 5 days of unauthorised absence can lead to a penalty notice. The rolling 3 year period relates to repeated offences.

That's the sort of thing Marcipex, I'd be livid if it led to absence being recorded.

The school bus service to the school here is awful.
Yesterday was the first day back and the bus was late from our village and broke down in the next village.

Sorry lateness not absence - obviously 🙄

So could persistent absence lead to parental fines for unauthorised absence? Surely parents would be able to challenge that in court?

I'm mildly concerned as we live rurally, so DD gets a contract bus which is occasionally very late. The last time it happened due to a road accident a total of 4 busses were late and one of the deputy heads issued dozens of late marks.

Up to now, I've said to DD that it doesn't matter much in the scheme of things, but I would absolutely be jumping up and down if she were marked absent - with consequences - for a late bus that is beyond her control.

I take it you've not read the new new rules then for absence. They are only allowed 5 days off in 3 years and sickness once in 10 weeks otherwise it wil be investifated and penalty's will be given with the new increased dine amount and apparently court orders brought in. Those absence for being late mean you'll be given a fine.

Yeah I have no excuse for that 😂

All I would say is that there is a minimum standard for English for teachers (and there used to be a test to pass before you qualify, not sure if there still is), as far as I know there is no minimum standard for English for the office staff who will be managing attendance and sending these messages. It looks pretty poor I agree, but I can believe this came from a school office.

Can I just clarify as someone who works in education

A U mark does not mean your child is absent, it means they are in school but arrived after registration

It is treated as absence by DfE

Using a U mark will not cause a safeguarding issue, staff know what a U mark is

Absence codes are different.