Yearly warning not to take A-level maths with less than a 7 at GCSE

As a mathematician you will surely understand the phrase “anomalous result” though and going on those stats yours was one. The fact remains that for every “grade 5 or 6 student” like you who gets an A* at A level there are 20 who end up with a U. And that is a tragedy as that means that they have spent 2 years struggling and studying and ended up with nothing. I suspect it also doesn’t include the kids who started A level and gave up after 3 weeks or 3 months or a year.

Did you have a reason that you got a 6? (Illness, bad luck with a paper, total slacker?)

Great tip!

@Hellodarknessmyoldfrien Why do you think you only got a 6 at GCSE if you were capable of doing so well at A level?

Possibly where IB comes into its own allowing children to continue a language with a 5 but to a mid GCSE/ A level standard

it is a shame to say you need a 7/ to be in top 20% to carry on.

What’s your job out of interest @Hellodarknessmyoldfrien ?

I actually think the A level course is great. But it would not have been a good destination for DS2, even tho he is able, as he was not interested enough to do the work.

I think A levels are rightly aimed high. Do you think that about maths as well out of interest? And FM?

If a candidate was gaining a 5 or 6 at GCSE that would indicate a lot of gaps in their knowledge of the language. Last year in AQA French you needed about 63% to get a 7. So your 5 or 6 grade would mean you dropped at least a third of the marks. At least a third of the knowledge was missing.

It would be great for that candidate to aim to continue their study of French or German. But I think a route at a similar level to GCSE would be better. Refining and improving their basic communication in the language rather than reading French literature and talking about political themes.

@clary if they need an A grade at GCSE to access the A level, then maybe there is something wrong with the A level course...No wonder MFL are in decline post GCSE..

@privatenonamegiven I think some parents and children need to ask the question of if this child comes in on grade X what is the likely outcome for A level? Plus what are the outliers both high and low? My children's sixth form only asks a grade 6 for maths A level and a 7 for further maths. The entry grades are 5 x grade 4s including maths and English.

However, there is a real motivational push to get a child to increase their personal grade profile. They gain points for being part of he college community, sports, music, clubs, staying in college for their free periods and studying, utilising the teaching staff who are always available in a certain time slot at the end of the day etc. These points earn them actual prizes, not a raffle. Literally a display case with points on vouchers for different places, basketballs, bluetooth speakers, board games, aftershave, art supplies, Nintendo Switch even a PS5. They know that this is what motivates a lot of students, tangible things they can get their hands on which in turn will help them post further education. There are two streams, going to uni and working/apprenticeships and they are well supported in both streams. Luckily, in that college they are not limited by their GCSE grades.

Both my children did maths and further maths A level but came in on mid grade 9s for maths and got A stars. However, I knew about the maths grades because of the postings by @noblegiraffe over the years which helped me see it pre GCSE for my eldest. I had also looked up the Cambridge Assessment tables showing grade progression.

My subject is MFL so I can speak confidently about it. To start the A level MFL course where it starts a student needs to have confident mastery of verbs and tenses, the range of GCSE vocab, the basics of the grammar and structure of the language. If they have these they should gain a 7+ at GCSE (assuming ofc no outside disasters liker missing out a writing question – which a teacher who knows the student will allow for).

If they do not gain a 7+ at GCSE (and there is nothing wrong with lower grades), then they simply do not have the basic knowledge assumed by the A level course. A level teachers have a lot to get through (there is a huge amount of content in the MFL course) and they cannot spend lesson time revising irregular verbs.

DS2 who is a smart lad did very little work for his Spanish GCSE, got a 6 – totally fine. The idea that he would have been a suitable candidate for A level is nonsensical tbh – I know that he just did not have the knowledge and skills needed. As the 6 evidenced.

I can see why people want to analyse this information and come up with common outcomes based on what GCSE grades they attained etc. My concern is how do parents and schools decide who might be the exception and manage to attain a grade greater than what is common for someone going into that subject with a particular GCSE grade before they start the course etc. Perhaps if we returned to the module system we had in the 2000s. Then students could start with 3/4 A levels and drop one at AS level at the end of the first year etc. The system was much more flexible back then.

Also I worry this may result in teachers having certain expectations of their pupils based on their GCSE results - that results in self fulfilling prophecy.

Totally agree but also think this should not be presented or interpreted as maths/ physics v everything else. As we have said MFL, biology pretty similar. E lit / history not hugely dissimilar on 7s translating to As and A*s I think the stats are possibly not as far apart as people think

@noblegiraffe sorry for highjacking thread. When I get time might do some brief analysis across subjects and share in another thread

Are you seriously calling an A grade, which is what a 7 is mediocre? As from my experience most educational establishments don't allow pupils with less than a 7 on to their A level maths course. I wouldn't even call a 6 mediocre..

Agree. The table shows the statistics. Some will beat the odds. Some will have done less well at gcse for a reason and with determination can succeed.
But it is good to know the statistics.

Never gives it a second thought now, but he needed AAB for uni so it did put the pressure on all round as the B was always going to be the Maths. Didn’t help that younger brother sailed it two years later with a 9 at GCSE and A star at A level.

Some people early in the thread have responded as if the point OP was making is "It is never possible for someone with mediocre GCSE grades to do well at Maths A level." That's not what she or her table are saying.

There is core maths which i understand is more accessible and a useful add on, especially for those who need some maths in their other subjects.

That makes sense. I think the subjects you list could become inaccessible and therefore a miserable experience. With hard work maybe more chance to catch up/ excel in humanities/ English. It doesn’t mean it can’t be done though…just that DC would need to buckle in for a rough ride. So much dependent on child though…

@TeenToTwenties I agree to some extend but I feel we are doing young people a disservice that maths and science is not more accessible. Not meaning to offend anyone here but I would also argue that getting excellent teachers in humanities is much easier than getting excellent teachers in sciences and maths... that has been my experience as a teacher.

@Hollyhedge @privatenonamegiven

I think maths has more people doing it because they or their parents think they 'ought' to do it. But if you listen to the teachers they do feel the same about needing a 7, especially re MFL.

Maths, science and MFL are much more content building block subjects than humanities. For humanities you need less to know the content of GCSEs, ( but you do need the underlying skills).

Furthermore with humanities you can probably always have a go at writing something, whereas with maths at least (and to some extent physics and chemistry too) you can look at a question and not have a clue how to do it. So the risk of bombing out entirely is higher with maths & sciences than with humanities. Maybe?

@TeenToTwenties it doesn't seem to be a problem for humanities subjects??

Stats are similar for MFL and Biology. Why is maths focused on so much more?! Genuinely curious…

@privatenonamegiven But surely it isn't a great idea for a student who has failed to master half of the GCSE content in maths to then try to do an A level that explicitly builds on that content?