Yearly warning not to take A-level maths with less than a 7 at GCSE

It seems that commonly students find the jump from gcse to a level hard - sometimes insurmountable - for maths, physics and chemistry. I don’t think I’ve heard other subjects mentioned as often as suffering from this. Some kids who are bright in other ways somehow just don’t seem to get the concepts, whereas to others it may be a lot more obvious.

So another factor may be what is the attrition rate - if they’re allowed to start more than 3 subjects, which is most likely to be dropped? Which ones more often result in students having to change tack and redo a year? I don’t know the answers to this, but it might be interesting if there were stats available.

Perhaps we could apply this to other subjects too? I’m not sure Maths or Physics are inherently more complex than some subjects like Chemistry, Biology to name a few. I would quite like to have a class full of super high achievers..

No one should be doing A level
maths if they needed extensive tutoring to get a 7/ 8/9
A level maths (along with Physics) is one of the toughest A levels imho and you need to have a flair for maths to succeed

DD’s school is 7 min for A level maths and 8 for further maths. DD said lots of people have dropped out of further maths or told cannot continue to year 13 as they are scoring so low on mocks. Someone got less than 10% and this is someone who got an 8 in GCSE maths.

Both mine are maths wizz’s and DS got 97% in both his A level maths and further maths exams and won an award for highest score in country for one of his final year degree modules. I got a D in GCSE maths and so did their dad, we would have been resitting!

@DoublePeoniesthank you - yes lots of sweat but not too many tears and his own independent work… i guess we can decide in September?

Absolutely agree with the op

This all so interesting - just spoke with the head of maths at my daughters school and asked how many A level students actually have a 7 in Maths GCSE in their classes - turns out only 3/60. Looks like they are very good at persuading and putting off many students - I find it quite sad actually.

@babylone the best discussion would be with your child and school. On the surface of it, yes, it sounds fine (our school asks for a 6 for maths, 7 for FM). But if that 8 was obtained through tutoring, blood, sweat and tears, it's worth considering how tough it might be.

Congrats on the 8.

A 9 in maths was 217 and a 8 was 186 - a strong 8 would be between 200 and 217 then

would that be enough to take further maths too?

How many points is considered a high 8?

I've been on this thread a while (when working out options etc!) and now my duaghter is waiting for results on Thursday!

She's expected to get a high 8 (sometimes got 9s but wasn't expecting that) but worried that somehow it might not be on the day 😬.

She wants to do physics chemistry and Maths.

Thank you!

I know you asked @noblegiraffe but it has been drawn to my attention that a maths account on twitter is asking people to send in grades and scores from 2023 GCSE and 2025 A level, for Edexcel, to compile a new table shortly.

https://x.com/themathsbazaar/status/1955657724014076281?t=eMPAV6dd4cIJHckwV1Wj4Q&s=19

@noblegiraffe
I was wondering if there is a similar graph comparing GCSEs and A-level results say for last year (GCSEs 2022, A-levels 2024)? Even better if this year, but it's probably far too early.

My ds was one who went from 7 to an A, but it took huge amount of work. He was looking like D/E at the February mocks and even up to about Easter he was only scoring 15-35% then suddenly he made a jump and even scored 80% on paper 1!
I'd like to show him how he'd beaten the odds! (he didn't work for GCSEs - when I asked him what he found the best revision method, he looked blank and said he didn't!)

Thing is though at least 25% of them still get .B+. So it’s a tough call if you have a DC v keen to do it! It does depend as well, tutoring is rife, private schools have much smaller classes, schools have v varying results - there are 7,8s and 9s and 7s, 8s and 9s…For my DC, on a 7, adamant what he wants to do going to see about 4 subjects so he could possibly drop if he wants to.

I found out that cross subject data is being released for 21-23 v soon. This is the first time a clear picture will be given with reformed GCSEs/ A level grades back to pretty much expected levels post-Covid. When it appears will start a new thread as there is a lot of interest and think important to look across subjects, not just maths…

My DD’s school had their strongest students in maths take their GCSE a year early, and then did Add Maths the following year.

I was s little uncertain, but she got a 9 in Maths, and then an A in Add Maths, and now seems well prepared for Further Maths.

I appreciate that students and parents can only take their GCSE strategy their particular school offers, but this set up has worked well for my DD.

Interesting thread! Following for dd in y10.

For those targeting a 7 in Maths, they would probably do much better in a different A Level. It isn’t uncommon for students like this to get a D in Maths A Level and get Bs in their other subjects. They could have 3 Bs by picking differently.

For those who get GCSE grades 5 and 6, BTECs or a mix of Btec and one or two A Levels (not maths) is usually a better option than 3 A Levels.

Thank you @Kalara

I think set 2 and 3 in DD’s school are doing the AQA Level 2 Further Maths and only set 1 is doing this one. She does not want to drop it, as she feels she has done some work now. The issue, I think, is that you have to disclose all your results on UCAS. Although she is a high achiever, she similarly has zero interest in the very elite universities like Oxford and Cambridge, so hopefully she will be OK even if she gets a poor result on just this one. Life lesson will be learnt. I think some of her classmates have now resorted to tutors for this one subject. Too late for us, normally older siblings would help, but they are also really busy right now.
I cannot remember much secondary school Maths, sadly!
DD definitely much prefers being at the top, comfortably, than second best. At least, it gives us a good steer for what type of university to pick. And perhaps even what type of career.

@Araminta1003 OCR Ad Maths in a term sounds very stressful. I am not super familiar with the spec but our school switched from that to AQA Level 2 Further Maths because they thought it was more achievable in a short time. DS's maths teacher seemed to think the OCR one, though valuable, was substantially harder. Which makes it a substantial step up from GCSE.

Hopefully if the whole class is doing it, some of the material might have been covered in class anyway - I know my son's teachers were cracking out the A level text books occasionally in Y9. So hopefully they are just topping up. But not, it's a lot.

Either way it sounds like it's shredding her confidence. I'd be tempted to say drop it, let her learn these more advanced concepts in slower time with her A level teacher. That will be a far more solid basis for her further studies than trying to teach it to herself on a deadline, and scaring herself. This reminds me of going into top set Latin when I was at school - I went from understanding everything to being completely out of my depth, and I quit. I expect had I stayed in second set I'd have done well. Confidence and pace makes a huge difference.

@DoublePeonies - I don’t actually know when they taught it but I think they started after the winter mocks so one term only. I think she is self teaching on savemyexams this week primarily, simply by doing past paper questions on the topics she doesn’t understand. I think she did get Gold on UKMT. The issue for us is she is aiming for a competitive boys grammar where there are loads of very competitive able boys so I am wondering if she should stay in her grammar (girls and mixed in Sixth Form but still more girls) or do IB at another girls grammar. I think she would be fine but is lacking confidence and does not like others being overly competitive. She is a very collaborative/team work person, very helpful and every single teacher has loved her. She is doing Physics and Economics as well just wondering whether FM, an MML or English lit as the 4th. She asked me this morning if I could pay for a CAT test to check her brain out! She thinks she just cannot see the shape stuff. I told her the brain keeps developing until 25…

@Araminta1003 how long has the additional maths been taught for?
DS1 is currently planning on Maths and FM next year - likely from a 9 at GCSE. With our blessing he has withdrawn from further maths GCSE as the teaching time just wasnt there (30 hours teaching total for the GCSE). If it hasn't been given enough class time, it isn't really surprising she's struggling.

FWIW, his teacher is very keen on him doing FM. His highest UKMT certificate is a silver. His younger brother is the one who gets into the further rounds.