Page 4 | Yearly warning not to take A-level maths with less than a 7 at GCSE

noblegiraffe · 2024-08-20T13:49:58+00:00

GCSE results day and therefore A-level sign-up day is coming. So with that in mind I just thought I'd post the table of conversions from GCSE to A-level results for maths to show that there is a ^strong^ correlation. This is because A-level Maths basically starts with a quick review of grade 8/9 GCSE algebra content and then gets more difficult. Students starting with a 7 will have to work very hard to keep up, students with a 6 often flounder. There are sixth forms and colleges that will accept students with a 6 onto A-level maths, but from many years of experience, this is not a good experience for the student. Many will drop out and switch courses early on (and therefore not appear in the results table), but some will struggle on for 2 years and then come out with a grade that really doesn't help them with university applications. If you take A-level maths with a 6, even if you manage to complete the course (and a lot won't), about three quarters will get a D or below, with E the most common grade. This data is from 2019 because obviously more recent data has been screwed up by covid. If your child is keen to do maths, but gets a 6, please consider Core Maths which is designed to be taken alongside 3 A-levels and provides supportive maths content for A-level sciences and social sciences (e.g. psychology, geography). If your child is going to do A-level maths (particularly if they are on a 7 but also 8/9), check that they have done summer bridging work so they hit the ground running in September.

Summercocktailsgalore · 22/08/2025 23:17

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2025 22:00

Is he going into Y11? Does he know from his Y10 exams some weak areas he can work on? If so, that might be a good place to start.

https://www.mathsgenie.co.uk/gcse.php is a good website as it specifically lists topic by grade so he can work his way up to more difficult topics. The link on the left is a video, then practice questions and worked solutions. He should watch the video with pen and paper (buy him a big pad of paper) and work through the examples with the video and try the 'try me' ones as it goes along. Then once he thinks he has the hang of it, he should try the worksheet and mark his work using the solutions. If he gets stuff wrong he should try to understand where he has gone wrong, possibly going back to the video for more help. There are other videos/worksheets he could use here https://corbettmaths.com/contents/ but they are listed alphabetically rather than by grade so a bit more difficult for structured self-study. You learn maths best by doing maths - watching a video isn't enough, he needs to do questions and review his answers.

Once he has done his mocks he should have an even better idea of what he needs to work on.

When the exams get closer he can switch from targeted topic revision to more mixed revision like past papers (also available on those websites).

Is he in top set? Is he going to be taught the full syllabus? Otherwise he may need to teach himself some of higher topics himself to maximise his chances.

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Hi, we have no feedback on areas, but he can identify some himself. Yes, year 10 and top set.
He has a good work ethic and is methodical in the way he revises for tests, so your suggestions are amazing.

thanks!

Original poster

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2025 22:00

Summercocktailsgalore · 22/08/2025 20:04

@noblegiraffe such a useful post. As a parent what resources would you suggest students could use, outside of lessons, to move that 6/7 to a grade 8/9. As no guidance has been given by school. Have a child willing to work outside of lessons and the set worksheets given for homework but no idea on where to guide them.

Is he going into Y11? Does he know from his Y10 exams some weak areas he can work on? If so, that might be a good place to start.

https://www.mathsgenie.co.uk/gcse.php is a good website as it specifically lists topic by grade so he can work his way up to more difficult topics. The link on the left is a video, then practice questions and worked solutions. He should watch the video with pen and paper (buy him a big pad of paper) and work through the examples with the video and try the 'try me' ones as it goes along. Then once he thinks he has the hang of it, he should try the worksheet and mark his work using the solutions. If he gets stuff wrong he should try to understand where he has gone wrong, possibly going back to the video for more help. There are other videos/worksheets he could use here https://corbettmaths.com/contents/ but they are listed alphabetically rather than by grade so a bit more difficult for structured self-study. You learn maths best by doing maths - watching a video isn't enough, he needs to do questions and review his answers.

Once he has done his mocks he should have an even better idea of what he needs to work on.

When the exams get closer he can switch from targeted topic revision to more mixed revision like past papers (also available on those websites).

Is he in top set? Is he going to be taught the full syllabus? Otherwise he may need to teach himself some of higher topics himself to maximise his chances.

OP posts:

Summercocktailsgalore · 22/08/2025 20:04

@noblegiraffe such a useful post. As a parent what resources would you suggest students could use, outside of lessons, to move that 6/7 to a grade 8/9. As no guidance has been given by school. Have a child willing to work outside of lessons and the set worksheets given for homework but no idea on where to guide them.

DemonsandMosquitoes · 22/08/2025 19:40

privatenonamegiven · 21/08/2025 20:14

Is your DS1 glad he did this subject?

As my point is people like your DS1 are being talked out of doing the A level when they can do extremely well and that's a shame.

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He needed AAB at the time for uni so it really put the pressure on as Maths was always going to be the B (at best!). He did get AAB but with hindsight made it difficult for himself.
In contrast, DS2 got a 9 at GCSE and Astar at A level and loved every minute!

alwaysthesamechild · 22/08/2025 19:22

@noblegiraffe thanks for responding

EmeraldJeanie · 22/08/2025 18:42

My ds got 90% on AQA maths and got an 8.
2 marks off a 9...
Then got 9 for further maths so swings and roundabouts!

Pythag · 22/08/2025 18:34

TrainGame · 22/08/2025 18:18

Why is the grade boundary so high this year? Is it because kids keep getting better and better at these exams and it means only a certain percentage of the cohort can get a 9?

It's so tough out there :(

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The edexcel papers were a bit easier than last year, so higher grade boundaries were necessary. Kids did not become better! Teachers also did not become better.

Original poster

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2025 18:31

The papers were really easy this year for the top end.

OP posts:

TrainGame · 22/08/2025 18:18

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2025 12:44

The grade boundary for a 9 at Edexcel this year was insanely high - 90%, and 20 marks higher than the previous year. This means that you could, unlike previous years, lose a grade 9 through mainly silly mistakes rather than lack of understanding of the content.

Someone who got a high 9 in further maths should definitely be considering A-level maths - the further maths content overlaps with A-level and he's clearly capable of it!

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Why is the grade boundary so high this year? Is it because kids keep getting better and better at these exams and it means only a certain percentage of the cohort can get a 9?

It's so tough out there :(

babylone · 22/08/2025 15:02

Thank you 🙏

Original poster

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2025 15:00

@babylone definitely worth a shot, but as Pythag says he should 100% start with 4 so he can drop one once he's got a better handle on whether he can cope.

OP posts:

Pythag · 22/08/2025 14:45

babylone · 22/08/2025 14:41

Can i ask a question for further maths at A level.
My son was predicted a 6 in maths for his GCSE, he was not offered the extra maths some high achieving kids do.
Through his own work and drive, he got a solid 8.
He would like to do Maths and Further maths at a level. Is this a ridiculous idea? He would like FM but is worried he might not be good enough or it might need too much work. (He will do geography and economics)
Or would it be more sensible to start with 4 A level and drop one for Y13? (Either geography is the maths and FM are good or FM if it is too much for him)
thank you

Edited

In this scenario starting with 4 is advisable in case further maths turns out to be too much for him. Nothing wrong with starting with four and seeing how it goes.

babylone · 22/08/2025 14:41

Can i ask a question for further maths at A level.
My son was predicted a 6 in maths for his GCSE, he was not offered the extra maths some high achieving kids do.
Through his own work and drive, he got a solid 8.
He would like to do Maths and Further maths at a level. Is this a ridiculous idea? He would like FM but is worried he might not be good enough or it might need too much work. (He will do geography and economics)
Or would it be more sensible to start with 4 A level and drop one for Y13? (Either geography is the maths and FM are good or FM if it is too much for him)
thank you

MargaretThursday · 22/08/2025 14:25

alwaysthesamechild · 22/08/2025 13:37

Apologies I realise this isn’t thread topic. Just fitted with the comment about the Edexel boundary this year

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Ask to view the papers.

We've had two remarked, GCSE statistics, 3 marks off next grade and Further maths A-level, 2 marks off next grade.

In both cases dd looked at the papers and identified on one of them marks missing. In one case they'd missed marking part of a question, and other they'd marked it, but it was over the page and when they'd added the marks up, clearly forgotten those two.

Both went up.

We wouldn't have put it in for remark if we hadn't seen the marks though.

WombatChocolate · 22/08/2025 14:19

I think lots of parents who or families who had Maths in mind as an A Level really struggle with the idea a 6 isn’t good enough and a 7 should think v carefully about it as is likely to be inline for a mid/low grade if they do it.

Lots seem to think a 5/6 is a good grade to set you up well for A Level. In most subjects at its a borderline A Level/Btec course. It’s not suitable for Maths. And it’s not about working hard …that’s what people don’t grasp. They can’t see how a hardworking 7 can’t make it to an A or A star but the stats show their outcomes are poor. As an earlier poster says, they see demoralised students stuck on a course they struggle with an ending up with BBE grades which make good unis tricky. They might have accessed another B or C in another subject.
Lits of schools insist on an 8, especially selective schools where students want to aim for RG uni.
in the end, perhaps people need to be told v baldly that for lots of students, if they go for Maths their likely grade will mean a lesser uni. But schools and colleges don’t like to say this as it’s all about funding and bums on seats and the fact that the very odd one occasionally does well from a 7 starting point and lots of parents are simply a bit deluded about their children.

Original poster

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2025 13:58

alwaysthesamechild · 22/08/2025 13:14

Anyone got experience of a maths paper remark? Edexel 2 marks off a 9.
not sure if it’s something that’s either done or worth it ?

Maths marking doesn't tend to move much, more likely one mark than two.

It would be really expensive to put in all three papers for a review too - what you want ideally is for a maths teacher to look over them and see if they can find any obvious marking errors, then only put that paper in.

I've looked at papers before where a kid would gain an extra mark on one question but then lose it on another which isn't a problem if they are on different papers as you only put the good paper in, but really annoying if they are on the same paper and cancel each other out!

OP posts:

alwaysthesamechild · 22/08/2025 13:37

alwaysthesamechild · 22/08/2025 13:14

Anyone got experience of a maths paper remark? Edexel 2 marks off a 9.
not sure if it’s something that’s either done or worth it ?

Apologies I realise this isn’t thread topic. Just fitted with the comment about the Edexel boundary this year

alwaysthesamechild · 22/08/2025 13:14

Anyone got experience of a maths paper remark? Edexel 2 marks off a 9.
not sure if it’s something that’s either done or worth it ?

Original poster

noblegiraffe · 22/08/2025 12:44

EmeraldJeanie · 22/08/2025 12:37

My ds a funny one. He slipped from his maths gcse prediction of 9 to an 8 ( 2 marks off 9) but got a high 9 in further maths.
He is thinking about maths at A level though been accepted at sixth form for other subjects. He said not to ask for a paper check as had worked out after the exam some silly, basic, mistakes.

The grade boundary for a 9 at Edexcel this year was insanely high - 90%, and 20 marks higher than the previous year. This means that you could, unlike previous years, lose a grade 9 through mainly silly mistakes rather than lack of understanding of the content.

Someone who got a high 9 in further maths should definitely be considering A-level maths - the further maths content overlaps with A-level and he's clearly capable of it!

OP posts:

EmeraldJeanie · 22/08/2025 12:37

My ds a funny one. He slipped from his maths gcse prediction of 9 to an 8 ( 2 marks off 9) but got a high 9 in further maths.
He is thinking about maths at A level though been accepted at sixth form for other subjects. He said not to ask for a paper check as had worked out after the exam some silly, basic, mistakes.

elozabet · 22/08/2025 11:56

aCatCalledFawkes · 22/08/2025 10:50

I think its this https://amsp.org.uk/employers/understanding-maths-qualifications/level-3-core-maths/ and google says the same points as an AS Level.

I assume it would support an application for some courses like a computing degree which requires a certain level of maths but not much maths as a computer science degree. I have a computing degree and the amount of maths was around this level in the first year. But that said I haven't heard of this before.

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I did a course looking at core maths. It’s a great course if you are planning to study the other sciences, geography, psychology or economics/ business studies as covers the maths needed for these subjects. As far as I’m aware, they are not many schools offering it yet which is a shame. I am trying to persuade my school to start it up but we don’t have the staffing to do an extra subject in the maths department. I’m not a maths teacher but teach a subject that would benefit from students continuing with studying maths!
I agree with only taking A level maths if you get a 7! It’s one of those subjects where it doesn’t matter how hard you work, if you don’t get it, you may never get it. Same goes for chemistry and physics. If you needed a tutor to get a 7, you are going to struggle to get a grade at A level.

aCatCalledFawkes · 22/08/2025 10:50

ErrolTheDragon · 22/08/2025 09:21

It sounds like your DD had good advice; hopefully the lad you mention will get some too.

Of course there’s a problem with the alternatives to A levels being insufficiently understood and valued. In the opening post, noblegiraffe asked people to consider Core Maths. I assume this earns some UCAS points but does it ever figure on university grade requirements/‘desirables’ alongside A levels? I don’t know what it includes but from the brief description in the OP it sounds like it might cover most of the maths many students could benefit from in their future studies and careers.

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I think its this https://amsp.org.uk/employers/understanding-maths-qualifications/level-3-core-maths/ and google says the same points as an AS Level.

I assume it would support an application for some courses like a computing degree which requires a certain level of maths but not much maths as a computer science degree. I have a computing degree and the amount of maths was around this level in the first year. But that said I haven't heard of this before.

Level 3 Core Maths - AMSP

What are Core Maths qualifications? Core Maths is a specific type of maths qualification for students who have passed GCSE Mathematics at grade 4 or better but have decided not to study AS or A level Mathematics.

https://amsp.org.uk/employers/understanding-maths-qualifications/level-3-core-maths

ErrolTheDragon · 22/08/2025 09:21

aCatCalledFawkes · 22/08/2025 07:38

I would prefer you to be honest to me as a parent. My daughter wanted to do Economics as she met the minimum requirement but school influenced her into taking the L3 BTEC Business Studies root of which she flew through and her final mark last week was a distinction. Obviously some unis prefer A levels but there probably no unis that are right for her.

A mum I was talking to this morning in my gym class was telling me her son was a few marks off a 6 in Physics GCSE so they have appealed for him to do the A Level. I would hope there school would manage her expectations on this.

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It sounds like your DD had good advice; hopefully the lad you mention will get some too.

Of course there’s a problem with the alternatives to A levels being insufficiently understood and valued. In the opening post, noblegiraffe asked people to consider Core Maths. I assume this earns some UCAS points but does it ever figure on university grade requirements/‘desirables’ alongside A levels? I don’t know what it includes but from the brief description in the OP it sounds like it might cover most of the maths many students could benefit from in their future studies and careers.

aCatCalledFawkes · 22/08/2025 07:38

noblegiraffe · 21/08/2025 22:29

We accept them with a 6 at my school.... and the conversations I've had with upset kids and frustrated parents whose kids are trapped on a course that is totally unsuitable for them. 'I wish you'd have told us from the start that they weren't likely to get a good grade, we'd have picked something else' - applying for uni with BBE after working your arse off to get that E doesn't give many options.

Perhaps you'd prefer to have the tearful kid and the poor grade conversation than some upfront honesty.

But it fucking sucks.

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I would prefer you to be honest to me as a parent. My daughter wanted to do Economics as she met the minimum requirement but school influenced her into taking the L3 BTEC Business Studies root of which she flew through and her final mark last week was a distinction. Obviously some unis prefer A levels but there probably no unis that are right for her.

A mum I was talking to this morning in my gym class was telling me her son was a few marks off a 6 in Physics GCSE so they have appealed for him to do the A Level. I would hope there school would manage her expectations on this.

Pythag · 22/08/2025 06:07

HereWeAreToday · 21/08/2025 23:05

Ive followed this from the start and completely agree how big a jump it is from GCSE to A level. Ds has always been good at maths, but struggled with the accuracy needed in his GCSEs and came out with a mid 8. Definitely no blood, sweat and tears to get that 8 though. So many of his peers have struggled at A level. I would say especially those who put in a huge amount of effort to get their 8 or 9 at GCSE. So that’s what I would look at. Ds got an A star at A level. Very happy because he didn’t do Further Maths because he didn’t think he was good enough

Completely agree that “how they got their result” is also important when it comes to deciding if they are suitable for maths A-level.